Is it time to band together9380
San Francisco |
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user | |
@Scena Thank you for your post. Let me do some digging and get some answers to your questions. As a check into this, I can share this (attached). In February, Matterport ran a survey of its MSPs and in the US, the average MSP reported making in the $.10-.15 bracket for residential and commercial spaces with relatively few below that price. Naturally, this all depends on the local market, offerings and how one markets themselves. I do not have data on multi-family specifically broken out from these numbers. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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San Francisco |
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Scena I have found answers to your questions in order top to bottom. - there was never an ad with $.03 a sq ft in it for multi-family or other - no one I was checked with on the multi-family team knows of a deal as low as $.03. See chart in above post. - I understand that you see a conflict here but the fact remains that anyone can buy a camera and self-service. It is your excellent, valuable service that retains customers, not $300 off on a camera. - Matterport works with its MSP network for any work it may help facilitate from time to time - no. Matterport does not sell around its MSPs. In other words, it does not target your clients as sales prospects - it is - doing a better job promoting the MSP network is, in fact, something being discussed I hope this helped! |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 WGAN ForumFounder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
  (Source) @Jwbuckl Above is a Matterport ad (source) showing Matterport selling tours for as low as 6 cents SQ FT in San Francisco two years ago. That means Matterport was selling tours for less than MSP market rate of $0.10 to $0.15 in February 2019. I could imagine the market rate for MSPs two years ago was higher than February 2019. This was a highly controversial - and short lived - trial (source), that created a fire-storm in the WGAN Forum. (related WGAN Forum discussion)  (Source) Here is an example of how Matterport pricing was emphasized which created pricing pressure on MSPs (such as Clients asking, "Why is Matterport offering at this price??" (Source)    [Matterport] just posted a statement [2:33 pm ET, Tuesday 18 July 2017](Source) Matterport defended the pricing in the above post (Source) This spin by Matterport only upset the Community more (source) and the Matterport trial was soon ended. However ... Matterport continues to compete with Matterport Service Providers in the Multi-Family space. ✓ Should Matterport be in the Business of Buying Scans from MSPs? While I could imagine that MSPs that get business from Matterport do not view this as competition, everyone else in that market that bought a Matterport Camera likely feels differently. Anything that encourages Matterport to drive price down, is not a good thing for photographers. I would feel differently if Matterport encouraged photography agencies to service multi-family opportunities. But, by Matterport doing this themselves, it not only drives the price down that MSPs get paid, but also likely discourages large photography agencies from entering the space to develop large accounts, knowing that they would be competing with Matterport (whom can always undersell by the nature of venture-backed companies that are focused on scale rather than profitability. The business model is simply different. I appreciate that Matterport has joined the WGAN Community as a Silver Member. And that Matterport is now actively engaging the WGAN Community – in the first-ever WGAN-TV Live at 5 that included two senior Matterport executives and Matterport team members now engaging in the WGAN Forum. And, I appreciate that you are seeking facts internally. And, that fact checking may be challenging given that some of this challenging-at-best history goes back two to three years (or more). Still, as you can see from the above - $0.06 SQ FT instead of $0.03 SQ FT - it gives us a sinking feeling when Matterport is competing with us. Nikon and Canon don't do that. Plus, when Matterport is in the business of buying scans from MSPs, it's in its best interest to pay the least amount to MSPs - not the most (which it should be). When Apple opened retail stores, it had the highest prices so as not to keep with retailers that were selling Apple product (and Apple thrived). If Matterport is going to continue buying Matterport scans from MSPs, perhaps Matterport could take the high ground and pay above market rate. Or, was Matterport charging clients $0.06 SF FT and paying Pros $0.10 to $0.15 SQ FT for those projects? We do want Matterport to participate in the WGAN Forum and WGAN-TV. It's refreshing for Matterport to engage with the WGAN Community. That said, you have your work cut out for you. Restoring trust after years of mistrust is challenging at best. Thanks, Dan |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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San Francisco |
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DanSmigrod Thanks for sharing Dan. I don't think there is much to say about a short, two-year-old failed experiment. The single-family home business seems too fragmented to me to work for a program like this and at a scale and that makes everybody happy but who am I to say. But I can imagine situations where having a single "orchestrator" of MSPs is a necessity and not a luxury in order to win business...where a single MSP would never have a chance at winning business. Think of large corporates with properties over large geographies which, like with all there contracts, want a single contract, single price, single legal entity rolled up etc. Dealing with 10s or 100s of MSPs just isn't going to happen. Big REITs maybe? I would also imagine that with guaranteed volume comes down the price per sq ft, but then again there wouldn't be any marketing/downtime etc for the MSP plus no account fees since it would all go to the big corporate. Personally, I currently know of no such experiment at Matterport but RJ is pushing for big scale for all of us and if we are talking about growing with our MSPs from 1.5M spaces scanned now to 10M and then on to 100M I imagine we have to start talking about customer acquisition systems of very large scale. These systems are not despite our MSPs, they are with and for them. My two cents. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jwbuckl Quote: Originally Posted by Jwbuckl I am in agreement with "a single 'orchestrator' of MSPs" ... "a necessity and not a luxury in order to win business" ... "a necessity and not a luxury in order to win business." I outlined this exact vision on 26 October 2014 in this We Get Around blog post: ✓ Analysis: How the We Get Around Network of Matterport Pro 3D Camera Photographers Will Accelerate Adoption of Matterport 3D Showcase Cloud Processing and Hosting Back then, I thought that would be We Get Around Network serving as the "orchestra leader" for one order to service large clients. Today, I no longer believe that the "orchestra leader" is WGAN because that would be in conflict with my mission to help Photographers get the most money for their work. Nor do I believe that Matterport should be the "orchestra leader" ... There are plenty of photography agencies that know how to handle one order for large corporations such as hotels. I get it that Matterport needs to scale exponentially, and that is a great thing for all Service Providers. That said, if Matterport is in the role of "orchestra leader" ... large photography agencies will NOT want to enter the Matterport Space because they know that they will be competing with Matterport (who controls everything about the transaction) and is focused on scale - not profitability - that an agency needs to care about. Matterport announced a strategic alliance with Meero last year. And, while we haven't seen anything come of that relationship (yet), I could imagine that Matterport and Meero are teaming up for either co-"orchestra leader" or for Matterport to use Meero as the "orchestra leader". While on the face of it that sounds good, it's actually good only in the short term. I say that because if Matterport has a strategic marketing alliance with Matterport and proceeds it the direction discussed above, then it will "freeze" the market for other agencies that would have been willing to be "orchestra leaders." To say another way, working with Meero will provide scale; but with just one actor. Imagine if Matterport had 50 actors in that role and all Matterport leads sent to these agencies. Getting to 100,000,000 million Matterport tours from 1,500,000 is exponential growth that requires many orchestra leaders: not one. Look at it this way. News Corp. (Realtor.com) invested in Matterport. And, the first Content Delivery Network (CDN) in place was Realtor.com. Sounds good (in the short term); but that deal likely boxed out Matterport from reaching agreement with major players such as Zillow.com, Airbnb.com and more because they see Matterport + Realtor.com as competitive. Imagine if News Corp. (Realtor.com) was NOT an investor in Matterport. Then the playing field would be equal and Matterport would be in a much better place for exponential growth with multiple CDNs; not use one. Again, same with Matterport + Meero. Same different. We all want Matterport to succeed. Yes. It raises all boats. I do see a day when the demand for Matterport 3D Tours (and other 3D Tours) outpaces the supply of Matterport Service Provides. We could see that day sooner with exponential growth by treating all MLS services - or photography agencies - as the driving engines of growth; not either doing things internally as presently done with the Matterport multi-family group or with what is likely to happen with Matterport + Meero. If the big plans for MSPs is the "orchestrator" to be Matterport or a Matterport working closely (and potentially exclusively) with Meero, look for another challenging day with Matterport Service Providers because the company that we buy our Camera and Cloud plan will be seeking to pay MSPs the least amount rather than champion the most money for MSPs. For clarification, I am fine with Meero at arms length and treated equally as other photography agencies. Again, my challenge is when Meero has a deal with Matterport that, I am guessing, either precludes other players or gives an unfair advantage to Meero. In the short-run, that's great, but to achieve exponential growth, many agencies need to be "orchestra leaders": not just one. My two cents. Dan |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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San Francisco |
Jwbuckl private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DanSmigrod I am not sure I made my point clear as you wrote, "There are plenty of photography agencies that know how to handle one order for large corporations such as hotels." True, but in my imagined scenario, one in which a corporate enterprise would need to be sold and serviced, this would not be one order for a hotel. My scenario was hundreds of locations across many States or countries in a fixed amount of time. In this case, many many MSPs or photography agencies would need to be brought to bear to sell and service such a scenario. Lastly, in order to continue to grow a vibrant and (mostly) happy MSP community, MSPs must make profits or they won't grow with us - won't attract new MSPs either and we are going to need a lot of them given the outlook. In this way, our fortunes are locked. Now, let's get out of the hypothetical and back to the current. ; ) |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 WGAN StandardMember Atlanta, Georgia |
Scena private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jwbuckl No better examples of the current than the multi-family ad and the current state of the MSP program. Can you share the details of the multi-family program such as the offered cost per square foot and distribution of jobs? I wouldn’t have a problem with this if these deals were flooding my inbox at the average cost per square foot from the survey graphic. I'm guessing you see the multi-family market as one in need of a "single orchestrator"? If it is then MSPs need to be aware of the larger strategy at play so we don't waste our valuable time and resources in these areas. I was unaware of the Meero alliance. As Dan points out there are many pros and cons to this. It raises questions. This only highlights the need for direction and transparency for the MSP program. I’m guessing that Matterport has a much larger provider network of any of the up and coming competitors. It won’t last long if the providers are left in the dark about strategy, surprise price changes, and large scale marketing campaigns which "appear" to be in direct competition with us. Again, thank you for interacting with us. We are all stakeholders. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jwbuckl Thank you for the additional backstory (and for taking time to engage with the WGAN Community). I look forward to seeing what develops. Best, Dan |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
 WGAN StandardMember Las Vegas |
VTLV private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jwbuckl - Thank you again for doing some digging here and letting us know an office communication is pending on the Highlight Reel post. If Matterport's listening, here are some thoughts to throw at the wall. Not sure if any will stick. I see We Get Around as a great platform for detailed questions and reference database of situations pertaining to Matterport and other 360 platforms. You helping with Matterport representation is greatly needed to keep the blinders off of us all. MOUG on Facebook has gained a lot of traction while also turning into a flooded database filled mostly with show off models and newbie questions by those too lazy to type anything into the search bar on the group. The Matterport Community page did nothing to keep my attention compared to WGA,. When Dee shared on the FB Live cast last week that you and Damien would be on the WGAN-TV later that week, I shared a link over to WGAN-TV to see that the link was quickly removed by one of the Page administrators. The team mentality displayed by this administrator demonstrates another action for lack of trust for the brand as a whole. This move kept a large portion of the Matterport audience from seeing an option to interact with you the town hall meeting you took time out to help everyone out with for understanding. I would like to look forward to seeing more of a "Partnership" displayed for the Matterport Partnership Program. Or perhaps renaming to Matterport Service Provider Network to distance Matterport from being a "Partner" to release preempted expectations by Photographers using the service. Knowing that Hosting will become a huge cost of ours to take on in the future when one day the Grandfathering dies (Most likely a cost that will force me to give up the MSP service). Partners are going to need a lot of help dropping old clients and acquiring new ones willing to pay the inflated hosting costs to keep our doors open. We have a ton of information scattered all over the Matterport Website, Facebook and other outlets such as WeGetAround. Is there a way to centralize all the information for partners to easily access perhaps open up a Partnership or Mentor program with WGA who could then centralize all the information available for a Partner to access? Perhaps one easy place to share the Matterport Class on Lynda, we have a resource page for presentations and growing business, different businesses to sell the service to. We are going to need a gallery that will support different camera qualities being used in tours as to the current Gallery on the Matterport page today. We need to know it will be okay to advertise other tours without liability if we cannot share our own tours due to indefinite date the price increase comes (Many of us will not be able to afford paying $700 a year just to have a decent portfolio of 20 models). Partners from areas of the world need to represent the market we are selling to. Me sharing a high rise next to the beach in Singapore doesn't represent the desert I am selling to. Also, the work that I personally do walking around furniture may not be represented in the tours I end up sharing. I may get a room with a spin around in the middle of the room and a hallway with nothing near the fireplace. This will not represent my justification in higher prices over my competition with half completed dollhouses. There's a lot of information lingering out there and it needs to be swallowed easily for MSP's (remember people not using the search bar on Facebook). I think some reciprocal linking between WGA and Matterport could show an effort on Matterport's side to Commit to a Partner program and ease the shoulders of Dee Johnson's so she can better handle customer service response times. Together we can build a larger database to share with the world for you to market to. Offering a Matty Award, a hat or a cup to find some odd dollhouse tours is fun, but a support program can offer some stronger loyalty with us having an ability to make our hosting payment (a payment I am quite sure I will not be able to manage in the future). |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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3D_Hoffa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This post is important and should not be buried *bump* | ||
| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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Changesin3d private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is a GREAT thread - conversation. I can not help but think about some other threads at the same time and how they all tie together with the business opportunity called the "Matterport Service Partner Program." I keep thinking about the Video that @3D_hoffa posted and the FTC rule that may apply. All that comes to mind is the complaint that the guy in the video talks about filing and how I would love to see it. Once in a business management class I was told do not worry about regulators, no one will take the time to write a complaint. @3D_Hoffa what do you think? Boiler plate complaint to the FTC is that what you were talking about? How do we get a copy of this guys complaint? |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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3D_Hoffa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Changesin3d I'm no attorney and I'm not sure about all the rules but from what I'm reading, this looks like it might be accurate. Someone on here knows an attorney that can help. If the information is accurate, I'm 100% on board. Whatever it takes to expose the truths about Matterport and bring change in their practices is what I want. |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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Changesin3d private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @3D_Hoffa I am just thinking is this a good question? Instead of calling an attorney maybe just work up some standard boiler plate complaint requesting that Regulators look at, say the FTC Business Opportunity rule, relative to Matterports offering? Could that be a good place to start? Anyone that wants to send it in could, the FTC has and on line complaint system. No one wants to offend Matterport, after all Section 9 'Termination of Service' in the terms of use could be executed and you could get your account removed right, if an MSP gets to open - negative in public. Clearly they are following the MSPs in public as you can tell by @jwbuckl being here? Do you figure he is reporting back? |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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3D_Hoffa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Of course he's reporting back, that's what he is here for. While I remain anonymous to protect myself "in theory", I think if Matterport started terminating accounts they would find themselves in more hot water than they would like. Then again, who knows where the edge of what they will do lies? Sure, I'll poke around the FTC site. There may be something there and if enough of us complain, maybe something happens. I hadn't thought of this until the videos came out but it's another avenue to get the word out about how they operate. |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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