Matterport 3D Scanning of Large Event Spaces into Vectorworks?15700
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hello, my company produces events in hotel ballrooms & convention centers, many of which don't have CAD drawings or even floorplans. I have been loosely following 3D scanning technology the past few years and am interested in purchasing a 3D scanner that I will then be able to import into VW to create accurate diagrams & floorplans (to avoid things like chandeliers, doorways, etc when designing stages). My major concern is most of the ones I have seen (Matterport, Metareal, etc) are aimed towards residential real estate...I am more concerned with accurate measurements and dimensions. Some of these ballrooms & convention halls are massive, with 30+ foot high ceilings, so I need something with a decent range that is accurate. I have come across an iPhone app called "Magicplan" that actually looks pretty promising, but is geared more to the home construction and remodel industry. I am going to download the app and see if it will work for my needs, but I'm nervous things like chandeliers and recessed ceilings will be difficult to account for. I think I may need something a little more higher-end. Right now I'm leaning towards Matterport...it's reasonably priced, seems a little higher-end than others, and I believe will allow me to edit dimensions after the scan to ensure accuracy (not sure about that though). Does anyone have any recommendations on products and/or workflow? Thanks in advance! |
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MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Research Matterport for AEC. You have the choice between two scanners. The Matterport Pro2 with a maximum range of about 5-7 meters and a precision of about 99 percent and a Leica BLK360 with a maximum range of about 15-20 meters and a precision of about 99,9 percent. Both scanners produce a 3D tour plus a Matterpak with pointcloud and obj. You can download a sample Matterpak from the Matterport website and try around with it. Apart from scanning another argument for Matterport would be collaboration in the 360 Tour plus possibilities to virtually stage the images. If I was you, I would start with Matterport service Partners for the scanning and the AEC work and focus on what you can do with it. Then make choices on investment in either a Pro2 or a BLK360 or probably both. |
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 WGAN FanClub Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Accuracy of supported by Matterport cameras is mentioned at https://matterport.com/leica-blk360 (click compare all cameras) 1-2% accuracy for a Pro2 assumes you scan every 1.5 meters. Spreading it much ore than this distance can generate much bigger error. I do venues all the time. Here is a wedding ballroom at a luxury hotel in Brisbane This has not been done for a floor plan though. We have done it to provide a 3D walkthrough for any potential customer who may be interested in this venue. |
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MeshImages 5-7 meters would probably be a problem in venues with high ceilings, correct? Normally the ceilings are about 15-20ft, but sometimes they can be as high as 30ft. Is scanning at multiple heights an option to get better scans? And does Matterport have the ability to adjust dimensions in the software? For example if we measure a wall with a laser tape to be 53ft but Matterport is saying 52ft, can we adjust that? |
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MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jstroming No, you cannot adjust anything in Matterport, not even the numbers in the measurements. Matterport is more a communications and marketing tool, not meant for 100% precision. For precision you will still need high-end lasers (not Matterport, not iPhone). But you can take precise measurements with a pocket laser and include those precise measurements in Mattertags. |
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MeshImages So I'm guessing the most reasonably-priced way to do this properly would be with the BLK360? |
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MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jstroming Depends on the space and what measurements you need. If you need measurements everywhere, go for the BLK360, if not go for Pro2 plus Pocket Laser. The scanning with the Pro2 is much faster than with BLK360. So, probably you will need both. You can combine the scans of the two cameras in the Matterport capture app. |
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MeshImages I'm confused why I would need 2 units...is the Pro2 just for the walkthrough function? Because I don't need that at all. I just need a relatively accurate (dimension wise) 3D model. And when you say combining them in Matterport, do you mean the software will reconcile the differences between both scans to be more accurate? I've also seen the BLK3D from Leica, would this be a good option for me? It will let me change dimensions, but I don't know if the project can be exported to a 3D model (and if it would include things like 3D chandeliers, etc). Thank You for your help! |
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MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You will probably need both units because you need to build a 3D model and scan all areas that should be in that model. The BLK360 is very, very, very slow (4 mins/scan). But the Pro2 is super-fast (30 seks/scan). You can scan the whole thing with the BLK360 at very, very, very slow speed or you combine and finish faster. | ||
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 WGAN3rd Party Service Member Beijing |
JuMP private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jstroming Here is a PDF file for the example "wedding ballroom at a luxury hotel in Brisbane" from @Wingman for your reference. The result is from the 3D mesh file of this Matterport showcase. https://we.tl/t-txEKD5qOsC You can use a ruler to measure the length on the page and read the right value on the edge of the page.  |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jstroming BLK360 360 photos are 32MP while Pro2 ones are 134MP. You will use a BLK360 to capture all details with high accuracy including high ceiling because it can reach far distances and then you can use a Pro2 to capture hires 360 photos for the same tour walkthrough mode. If you do not need a walkthrough at all and still want to use Matterport you can create a tour with a BLK360 only and then order a floor plan from Matterport(about $15). You can use a BLK360 without Matterport but there will be still about $2000 cost per year for Cyclone subscription plus you will need to do everything yourself(register scans, clean data, generate floor plans). |
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DougMagners private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would like to start by saying that in the past I strongly encouraged people to stay away from the BLK360 because it can be incredibly slow and has terrible picture quality compared to Matterport. However, given your specific needs, I think this may actually be the choice for you. Since you don't care about getting a virtual tour out of it, you can use the Leica Field360 app to make the scan time go down SIGNIFICANTLY (I forget the latest stats for speed but it is much faster than running it with the Matterport app). So by running Leica's Field360 app, you can scan faster and get better dimensional accuracy (and range) than using Matterport's camera or Matterport's platform (to clarify, the Matterport pro2 camera will be faster than the BLK360, but the BLK360 with Field360 is faster than the BLK360 on the Matterport app). And since you only do event spaces that are large, you can spread out your scans more and still be fine (more spread out = fewer scans = time saved) Having said all that, the only factor that could upset your apple cart is the price of the Leica Cyclone Register360 software that you would need to buy if you go this route. But if you do enough of these projects and it is a significant value to be able to work with good 3D data of the spaces, it might be worth it. And while Wingman is correct, this would require you to do all the work, the Register360 app can do a lot of registration automatically, and then you can control your workflow, quality, and output process (which isn't really that difficult). If it were me, given your needs and the types of spaces you work in, since you are focused on the accuracy and not the imagery, I would seriously consider this option as long as you have enough work to justify the cost of the scanner and the software. If not, maybe consider renting or subbing it out to an actual scanning company, at least the first couple times to see if it is worth your investment. Good luck! |
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DigitalTwin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My two cents: I'm not sure these tools are the best for what you might want to achieve if your goal is to have a 3D model of these venues. You might want to look more into LIDAR scanners. The film industry uses this technology to build models from. I don't have enough information on that to speak to but I did just want to comment on a few things. I'm a VW user also and am familiar with performing site surveys for event venues. It would be very helpful to have a library of 3D venues. Don't overlook the ability of the imagery though. a virtual walk through can still be very helpful to you, clients, technicians, etc. I cant tell you how many times i've returned to my office and realized I forgot to note where say, the HVAC ducts are in the ceiling. open up your tour and it's all there, and you can measure to the stated accuracy as well. You don't have to go back or place that annoying call to the venue asking them to measure something for you. It can also be super useful to scan as-builts for your records. The next time you do the same or similar job and say how the [redacted] did we do this last time? Just open the model and look. I was curious about the point cloud files and ordered a Matterpak for a house I had scanned. You can import the obj. file into VW and convert the model to a mesh. You can manipulate that mesh but it could be a tedious process and it may negate the applied textures. But you could also download a floor plan and at least have that as a basis from which to create a model from. Regardless of scan accuracy, I'm guessing you would still want to verify IMPORTANT dimensions like a doorway or elevator that you need to get a scissor lift into. You can scan from differing heights as well to get better coverage of a high ceiling (on your scissor lift). I use the Pro2 Camera. Please note that the way the technology works (Infrared) is line of site. The camera cannot see behind things. It cannot see the top of a chandelier 20' off the floor and will not generate the 3D geometry that it either cant see or is beyond its range. These are the things you have to think about when scanning in order to get the fullest, most detailed and accurate model. Best of luck! Come back here and let us know what you end up doing! |
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 WGAN ForumFounder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
 2. Five (5) Leica BLK360 Scanners/Cameras for Rent in the United States  3. CHEAT SHEET: 60+ Companies Seeking MSPs to Shoot Matterport/HDR Photos Gigs @jstroming Welcome to the We Get Around Network Forum. If you decide on Matterport + Leica BLK360, the following may be helpful: 1. WGAN can help you source Matterport Service Provider anywhere 2. Five (5) Leica BLK360 Scanners/Cameras for Rent in the United States 3. CHEAT SHEET: 60+ Companies Seeking MSPs to Shoot Matterport/HDR Photos Gigs About #3 (above): You could use this list to help you source Matterport Service Providers. That said, there are not many Matterport Pros that have a Leica BLK360; so most likely you – or the MSP – would need to rent a BLK360 (affordable). Best, Dan |
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ron0987 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jstroming, you do have several options depending on what your final product requires. But like others I think the MP Pro2 will not give you the detail you need. But before you invest in anything you should seriously look into renting the scanner since these are large investments. I do agree there are some short coming with the BLK360 using MP platform and that Leica Cyclone software is expensive and can be difficult to maneuver thru. I would recommend using Autodesk Recap to register your scans, if your overlap is good all you need to do is drag and drop, it will register them for you and then you can export to just about any drawing software. Also some of the companies that rent scanners also include the software in the rental. This gives you an option to use it before purchasing it. One other even cheaper option is photogrammetry, I been research several companies and Dan posted an article I tried the software and it might be what your looking for. It's called Reality Capture, this has a free version that lets you do your project for free and if you like it you pay to export it. I attached a screen shot and I think it would work for you. I used a group of photos and since its been several years I no longer have he scale but this has been the best software I have seen. I just can't confirm the scale.  |
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Everything here is very helpful, I appreciate all of you responding. I am going to hire a company locally for an event in a few weeks and pick their brain about it. I am leaning towards the BLK360, I will probably rent that unit after hiring a professional for the first event. Thanks again for everyone's help! | ||
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jstroming Please do share with the WGAN Community what you end up creating ... Good luck with your project. Best, Dan |
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DanSmigrod I will do that! Thanks again. |
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| WGAN-TV Leica Geosystems BLK360 Mashup with Matterport: 1st Look with @Metroplex360 Chris Hickman Quote: Originally Posted by jstroming @jstroming For clarification, sounds like you are going with: 1. Matterport Cloud account 2. Leica BLK360 + Matterport Scanning App 3. Local Matterport Service Provider If the MSP has not used a Leica BLK360, it pairs to the Matterport Scanning App just like a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera does. WGAN Forum Discussions that may be helpful for you: 1. WGAN Forum discussions tagged: BLK360 | Large | Event Spaces | Matterport MatterPak Best, Dan |
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 WGAN Fan Club Member Bentonville, Arkansas |
kwreece private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Another system you may want to take a look at is the iGuide IMS-5 camera. It is priced similarly to Matterport Pro 2 cameras but has lidar built in so measurement accuracy is mush better and you can scan large spaces very easily. You can download the CAD file, super accurate floor plans and more. Here is a link to one I did a while back. Not having to scan every 5 feet is a huge timesaver as well. https://youriguide.com/210_e_monroe_ave_kirkwood_mo |
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jstroming private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by kwreece Thank You I will look into this! |
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Video: WGAN-TV 3 Introduction to iGUIDE PLANIX Camera Kit (and Demo) with Planitar (iGUIDE) Marketing Manager Chris White (@Chris_iGuide) | Thursday, 18 March 2021 @jstroming This transcript is for the WGAN-TV show above. ✓ Transcript: WGAN-TV iGUIDE PLANIX Camera Kit | Intro, Demo and FAQs Best, Dan |
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Video: Matterport Point Cloud to Vectorworks Workflow | Video courtesy of Si Horton YouTube Channel | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Bentonville, Arkansas |
kwreece private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Great link!! Very helpful. | ||
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