I am thinking about starting a virtual tour/Real Estate Photograph business13125
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey everyone, I am starting out a small virtual tour business and have a few questions that I figured would be best answered here. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this as it’ll help me greatly. 1. I was thinking about getting a Ricoh Theta SC2 to start out with. Will it produce sufficient enough quality virtual tours to get paid for? Or should I go with the more expensive Theta 1 model? I will be targeting lower end homes that average about 150k-300k in my area, I was thinking about charging only $125 for the service. 2. I was also thinking about adding a “Virtual Tour + Still Images” package as well. I already own a great DSLR camera (Canon Rebel t5i) and will soon get a wide lens for it. Will I find real state agent that are also interested in still images or do they always end up taking them on their own? 3. Third, how should I go about reaching out to real estate agents. What I’ve been doing lately is searching real estate agents near me lists on realtors.com and such. I was thinking about cold calling them and maybe offering them a free virtual tour, and charge them only if they would be interested in having it. I would also give them a business card and maybe ask for a referral? What should I use to process/edit the virtual tours that I take? I will probably end up using Matterport or Asterroom to upload/host the tours, unless I find a better software along the way. Any other tips/advice are welcome. Again, thank you to everyone who contributes anything to this and I really appreciate it. -Malek |
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 WGAN FanCLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Malek The SC2 creates a decent image however, if you are interested in doing Matterport tours this camera is not yet supported. It does work well for Zillow 3D home tours or other pano tour platforms These are the images straight off the SC2 (no editing): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cj4z86yvipbphxm/AABoS7BRGpIhYvBag71zo6d5a?dl=0&fbclid=IwAR2L_6mivpDbHQGKeEWc3NSIwMw4jJA6kRzJ7GW5lwkcAY3cBca1jmjqm5U And this was a test of the SC2 shooting a Zillow 3D home tour: https://www.zillow.com/view-3d-home/ac517843-d301-42b0-9bf3-527cabfc75c2?setAttribution=mls The current supported 360 cameras for Matterport are: the Ricoh Theta V ~ runner up the Ricoh Theta Z1 ~ best of the supported 360's the Insta360 One X (very grainy image quality) the Insta360 One R (very grainy image quality) |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hi Malek, Welcome to our forum. You will love it here. Lots of advice and lots of good sharing. You will find seasoned pros, up and coming photographers, part timers and everything in between. As Chet Atkins said about playing guitar: No one was born already knowing how to play. The same is true for photography. The main goal is to share and support each other. Here are my two cents worth to some of your questions: 1. I would get the Ricoh Z1. Dan had some for sale here. Maybe he still has some. They have been hard to find. I find that the Z1 does a decent job. You may not be pleased with anything lower than that. 2. In my area still photos are still king. Learn that craft first. Add Zillow 360's next with the Z1. Stay with that for a while. 3. Get some portfolio work and then go out and call on agents. Reach for the new ones. Those that do not have an established photographer yet. 4. You should learn to edit your own photos. Outsourcing is great when you are overwhelmed with work. Another upside of knowing the editing side is that you will shoot better and be able to communicate with your editors better. 5. On a t5i a good lens would be the EF 10-18 mm. That would play well with that camera. You will find yourself settling near what would be 21mm on full frame. So that lens set around 14'ish will do great. Remember if you shoot too wide it will take away from the shot and look unnatural. 6. Instead of offering a "Free" shoot, offer that they can pay you when the house closes. They may be cash strapped but you should get paid for your work. If I can help further feel free to reach out to me. Cheers, Chuck |
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Welcome Malek, similar boot like you. I agree that regular Real Estate photos come first from everything I have learned here. Stick around  |
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 WGAN FanClub Member Buffalo, New York |
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Malek yes the primary reason real estate agents are hiring you is for high quality images, then a virtual tour. I did several free photography and virtual tours when I started out, so I can get a feel for what I'm doing. If you add a fisheye lens to your high-end DSLR you can create stunning panoramic images just so you know, and although it won't be supported on matterport, there are numerous virtual tour software programs which would be sufficient and also satisfy the agents. Practice makes better. Perfect practice makes perfect. You will always be learning. Once you have your equipment, you will need a basic website. Get yourself some four color business cards and actually go out to the agent's office and hand them your cards. Consider that the real estate agency bills the selling customer approximately 6% commission. So if you're only charging an agent $125 and they're splitting a $12,000 commission for the house that you helped sell, the agents will definitely love you, however you will find that you are leaving money on the table. As your work improves, real estate agents are very good about referring other agents to you. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I agree with GETMVR. Do what you can not to underprice your work. Google other services in the area but I think you will find a 2500 sq ft house will be between $250-$300. It's hard to go up on price after you advertise a lower price. Some people do a bait and switch and quote lower than they need for the number of photos and upsell everything. I would stay away from that model. An idea to get sample images would be model homes. They will be vacant and you might make a good contact. An added benefit would be that no one will be looking over your shoulder. Chuck P.S. Not that this is the be all to end all examples of real estate photography but here is some of my work. I suppose one could learn what to to or what not to do from it https://pickchuck.smugmug.com/Real-Estate |
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @lilnitsch Hey, I appreciate your fast reply. I know the Theta CS2 isn't supported by Matterport yet, but I believe they will be supporting it pretty soon here. Do you recommend that I go with the Theta 1 for that reason, or is it because of the difference in quality? Also, I have never figured out what Zillow 3D homes are. Do I get paid to shoot virtual tours for properties already listed on Zillow? If so, It would definitely be easier to start with that. |
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @PickChuck Hey Pick Chuck, thank you for welcoming me here. How to I reach out to Dan for those Theta Z1's, are they used? Is the price discounted? To be honest, I have no experience shooting real estate photos or editing pictures for that matter. I am a fast learner however, and I feel like it won't take me much to start getting acceptable/decent pictures. Your work looks amazing by the way and I will definitely be looking over it again before I try taking my own shots, so thanks for that. Like I mentioned in another comment, I have no idea what Zillow 360 is or how I get paid to do that, but I will definitely be doing some research on it. I had that exact lens in my amazon cart for about $270, so I am glad I chose the right lens there. Also, the 'pay when you close' model sounds great and a lot better than giving away my service for free. The reason I suggested the $125 price tag is because I was only find one competitor who's about two hours away from that charges $125 for it. Now that I am looking to get the Theta Z1 however, I believe a price tag of about $200-$250 sounds pretty reasonable. lastly, I am not really sure what you mean by model homes, or how to go about doing that. |
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GETMYVR Hey, I appreciate your reply. I am in the process of making business cards right now. Also, now that I think about it, you're right, $125 seems really cheap and could perhaps charge upward of $200-$250. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Malek, The price is normal price that you can get on Amazon or Adorama but don't let that dissuade you. These are very constrained and backordered everywhere. They show up and are out of stock by the end of the day. Dan is not making ANY money on these. He just used his money to purchase 20 of them for our group. You can send an email to Dan Via this site. He also watches the site (He is the owner of the site). I suspect he will reach out to you. Also, I would consider joining as a standard member. There are many discounts you can take advantage of. I find out that that money is well spent. Cheers, Chuck |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Buffalo, New York |
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Malek starting with Zillow 3D home tours is a good start. Your name will be front and center. Other agents might connect with you. First things first go to Zillow and set up a profile and list yourself as a photographer. sometimes Zillow has some prerequisites from photographers to make sure that they're not just hiring anybody but I'm not sure about that nowadays. in your immediate area go to Zillow and find all the listings that don't have the 3D tour icon. Click on the listing and you will see the name and The brokerage for the agent. Give them a call tell them that you don't see a Zillow virtual tour and tell them that their listing will get a 50% rise in hits and 50% more saves ultimately selling the almost faster than those without virtual tours. You download the Zillow 3D home app and practice. Typical Zillow shoot requires just one panorama per room and if it's a single house you want to get some shots on the outside. Once you're back home and connected to your Wi-Fi the virtual tours load and that's it. All you got to do is go back into the tour later on and make sure that navigation is working for all the rooms and everything is properly labeled. Every house will take you approximately 30 minutes. You can charge $100 or you can charge $80... Even if you charge just $50, that's $100 an hour. The Theta SC2 is a mid-grade consumer level camera. I would not use it. My Theta Z1 is sufficient, and you get what you pay for. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GETNYVR, Well said sir. I had to send some sample images and then shoot 5 Zillow shoots. Absolutely BRILLIANT idea on looking on Zillow and finding homes without a 360. As you move forward you can use the same images from you Zillow shoot to send to Asteroom for an even better 360 tour with a dollhouse and floorplan. Keep in mind that you need to be solid on everything you are doing before you add services. I.E. still photos and Zillow 360's. You can actually do quite a bit of work just with those two. Chuck |
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| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Buffalo, New York |
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @PickChuck inside the Zillow 3D home app you can toggle the camera setting to save images on the camera - then reuse for Asteroom. Yes, if Asteroom is your virtual tour platform rock on! Far more simple than Matterport, but if it satisfies the audience and pays the bills, what's not to like. I'm not a big fan of the monopod and for my Z1 I am trying extra hard to make sure that I'm level, then I screw on the camera - and I repeat this every shot. (( And adaptation is the mother of all inventions and as such a clever monopod level hack to be revealed soon - you'll need a drill )) |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GETYVR at least on my Zillow app it was clicked to save to camera by default. I didn't find that out until I did a complete other pass for an Asteroom shoot and then used Image Capture (Mac) to pull them off my camera. I never found and didn't want to invest in a $150 monopod with feet. I must have 5 monopods around here including two Gitzo's (without feet of course). So, I am using a microphone stand. The base is 10". I find that if I am shooting a house that the floors are level and I am just fine. I do have a tiny ball head that I have used outside if I can't get to the sidewalk or if the driveway is not level. It does show a very little bit.and I think I need an one inch extension if I use it on a regular bases. I must confess I have used a piece of cardboard to put under one side of the mic stand like a matchbook under a table..Like our dad's did. LOL Drills I have. Chuck P.S. Here is how small the Nadir is with the mic stand. I almost could just leave it. I even thought about putting a collar around it with my logo and email address on it. Very non electronic. LOL  |
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| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
 WGAN StandardMember Las Vegas |
VTLV private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There's a ton of people entering real estate photography right now with consumer grade 360 cameras and starting a business. Most got laid off or their hours got pushed back in other job sectors. Tons of photographers and other workers are choking right now because they banked on "Volume" that isn't so abundantly available this year. 360 had a little run of demand for a few months during Covid shut downs. @lilnitsch - shows the difference in quality the agents are used to seeing when they check up on houses for their clients. Smart agents will recognize the difference in quality an SC gives out vs a Z1. They won't know what model was used, but they will see the grain and a newbie hiding in the mirrors. @GETMYVR - suggestion on chasing agents with no tours is a great low budget angle to try out @PickChuck - is absolutely right about having plenty of opportunities with still shots and Zillow 3D to start. There's a ton to learn out there. We have all looked at what we first offered as photos a year later and want to throw up seeing the crap we sold to people back then. You need the right tools to get started and there's a lot of costs involved. Tons of people jump into this, race to the bottom in pricing and disappear. What's your link to real estate? What's your market? Friend/Family member been licensed for awhile and taking names? What's your experience in photography? Come from weddings, events, portraits? There's some shooting styles we see from other markets of photography that aren't necessary always in Real Estate. Example: Wedding photographers love to shoot an entry table instead of the foyer or they like to frame a close up of the sink with dishes in it with a plant centered.  Dan has a lot of tools here to help you with. Allow yourself to go back to school for awhile and soak up some info on WE-Get-Around Training Academy. @thereal360 is studying this idea now. He's asked a ton of questions, read a lot of posts. Searching for answers that weren't explained well elsewhere. He's not jumping of a cliff into uncharted waters. He's calculating how much money would he pocket if he charged $125 for a shoot? What is his hourly rate when he's done and delivered the product. Did he pocket enough for hosting, new equipment, insurance, licensing, maybe an editor & We-Get-Around Membership. Curious to hear more. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @VYLV very well said sir. I am so proud and honored to be part of this group. Chuck |
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GETMYVR @PickChuck So how's doing Zillow 3d home tours different than going straight to the agent and offering the service directly. I feel like I am missing something here. Also, why are you suggesting that I charge less through Zillow's 3d home tours? Is it because Zillow doesn't accept tours from Matterport/Asterroom? I can't seem to understand the different between doing as a freelancer vs though Zillow. I haven't gotten to the point of researching monopods just yet, but a microphone stand sounds like a great idea. Do you recommend a specific one? @VTLV Thanks for your input, and to be honest I have no direct link to either photography or real estate but I am eager to learn about both as I am very interested in wholesaling/investing in real estate and I also own a DSLR camera that I have taken a lot of picture and YouTube videos with in the past. I am getting into this because I like the business model and wanted to improve my sales skills through it. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Malek Zillow shoots are add ons to the still photos you shoot for the realtors. If you get certified with Zillow they will list you as a "Certified Zillow Photographer". I am not aware of them sending any business to photographers but that may be in another region. You will still need to call on realtors to shoot these Zillow tours for them. I think $125 as a single shoot or $99 as an add on to photos would be a target price. Zillow does not accept other cameras besides IOS / Android / Ricoh cameras which the Z1 is the best image quality. The Zillow listings both still photos and 360 help in the search engines. Charging less? Zillow is a different platform all together than the MLS. It's perceived value may not carry as much monitory value as the MLS and other platforms that the agents typically post in. To pursue photography or any learned skill, in my opinion, one needs to have a passion for it. If you have no contacts and not a lot of experience at this point possible consider partner up with a good photographer who is lighter on the sales side than you are. Just a thought. Also, remember as Napoleon Hill said, "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve." You can do anything you set your mind to. My recommendations would be to read: How to win friends and influence people by Dale Caenegie Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. (Also his laws of success if you get ambitious) The 4 Hour Work Week by Tim Ferriss Tribe of Mentors by Tim Ferriss Tools of Titans by Tim Ferriss P.S. In full disclosure Tim is a friend of mine but I would recommend his books no matter what. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Buffalo, New York |
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A 2000 ft home shot for a Zillow 3D home tour with 8 rooms may only need 15-25 photos scans including exterior. A matterport tour might require 50 to 75 photo scans. You can certainly contact the Real estate agents directly by phone or in person, I only mentioned looking on the Zillow map to identify those listings without a virtual tour, which would provide a perfect segue into why you're contacting them. |
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Expertise private msg quote post Address this user | |
| INORITE!? Quote: Originally Posted by VTLV |
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Most of my business these days is by referral only & I am more flexible than most of my competitors not to mention I understand the ins & outs of all my local mls’s and most brokerage backend systems | ||
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My shoot today paid me my fee to show up today and shoot a home that went into contract on Sunday as she sees the value in the services I offer and this gives her insurance incase the deal flubs and gives her marketing materials for the just sold campaign. | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Buffalo, New York |
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @PickChuck Often over looked, The greatest salesman in the world by Og Mandino is epic, and a very fast read. It's a whole different mindset to create your own living, than showing up to a job. Reading books like these trigger that momentum to visualize and then attain your goals. IMO. |
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WGAN Standard Member Las Vegas |
VTLV private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The Greatest salesman in the world is an awesome book. I’ll vouch for that one. Good call. So we’re looking at going a little blind into this territory of selling photos and tours with no support from a close colleague in the biz. You got burn and desire with the whole selling and investing belief. Guys in that side of the biz tend to use fresh meat to do their leg work for next to nothing and promise large returns in the future that rarely pan out as promised. The cost of time invested versus return drops quickly on tons of failed deals that sound good on paper that rarely close and produce immediate profits. These guys will burn up your time every chance they can to squeeze a couple more hours out of you. Beware how much time is focused there versus being a photographer. I believe the members above gave you the low hanging fruit that can work with your current setup doing phots and Zillow 3D. You have a couple more costs to look at. Do you currently have an iPhone 7 or greater or an iPad with similar specs? Many 360 software programs require the iPhone/iPad route. If so, you’re looking good to get a canon efs 10-18 wide angle lens for about $300 to shoot some photos and start practicing. Otherwise you got a new phone cost to look at. Shoot some model homes if covid rules allow in your area. Get the Zillow 3D app on your iPhone or iPad and practice using your own home as the subject address to publish to. Do it multiple times. Publish/unpublish. Practice your edits of photos and compare to what’s out there (more software to get). Practice multiple Zillow 3D’s and publish them to your home address or family members address if they have a single family home. Apartments are a pain to get published correctly. When you feel good about those go back for some more education with Dans academy . You need this information available to you for many situations. You need to commit to the salesman aspect and learning your tools and software constantly. When you feel good. Get the site and call agents as mentioned above. The plan is simple and required dedication. If someone else’s is interrupting your time, you need to have them respect your need to dedicate to your passion right now. Go Chase for those photos and tours other agents didn’t take advantage of without shaming them and you’ll build some relationships. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GETMYVR & @VTLV I just put his vol 1 and 2 on my Audible account. I tend to take in my information via audio. Thank both of you for this recommendation. If one is not learning they are moving backwards. Chuck |
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @PickChuck Thank you for the explanation, but it's still a little confusing. Can you not use matterport tours on zillow listing? If not then wjo should I be targeting with the Matterport tours?(that I can also charge more for). Also I know that usually only Real estate agent have access to the MLS, is there a way I could get my hands on it? Do I have to know someone, a real estate agent perhaps? Thanks for the book suggestion btw, I have read how to win friends and influence people and think or grow rich. Haven't the chance to read the books by tim ferris just yet but I will definitely grab one of them soon. @GETMYVR I have always wanted to read this book, since you mentioned, I went ahead and ordered it through amazon. I just finished reading 'Influence' by Dr. Robert B. Cialdini. I am also currently reading 'New Sales. Simplified'. @VTLV I do have a somewhat old Ipad, I am also upgrading my soon from an android to an Iphone (Once apple realses their new and cheaper model soon). I will also buy the lens this weekend so I can start practicing. Thank you for all the pointers as well. |
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PickChuck ok ok, so i looked for ZIllow listing for sale without a tour... for this listing... who would I contact? https://www.zillow.com/myzillow/favorites#44555976 There are 3 Agents... Sellers agent and premier agents |
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @thereal360 So, with Zillow you have to select the agent on the listing pictured here the Seller's Agent Todd Bunger is the listing agent the other 3 agents are paid placement & it is likely that even when you select the Seller's Agent that all 4 agents will be contacted as Zillow sells these leads to agents  |
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WGAN Standard Member Las Vegas |
VTLV private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @thereal360 - Ever use Control+F to search? Looks for "Listing Agent" or "Listing Provided By". Zillow moves the agent info around all the time. They're looking for ways to create leads for their Zillow Premier Agent Program. So nothing stays in the same place for long. "Listing Provided by may be "Listing Courtesy of" in a couple months. Just like virtual tour links, they're usually buried, but can be found as you get used to reading a listing and filtering the click bait for new buyers. Highlight and copy the agents name and have the Zillow Agent Finder open in another tab and drop the agents name in. If they made any attempt at a profile, it's on Zillow Realtor.com or hopefully found in a Google Search. @Malek - Remember you need whatever software apple software that came in the Iphone 7 or better to make Zillow 3D. Something in there that couldn't work with older models (I forget). I'm sure there's a comparison chart with what you have versus an iphone. I imagine Matterport would require similar. Next issue will be your computer. Do you have a minimum of 16gig memory in your computer and a favorite program to edit photos in? Gear was super difficult for me to acquire when I got started. Need a good result to get paid enough to get the net piece of gear. A bunch of people get a new credit card and max out on a shopping spree for a new Matterport camera, tripod and Ipad and think they're off to the races. No insurance and quickly learning Matterport photos don't cut it for selling to agents. |
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Malek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @VTLV I was actually looking around the Matterport website and found out that you can now install the Matterport app on Android (Beta version, but seems like its fully functional). I have a powerful laptop that I used for video editing a few years back. However, I don't have subscription to a photo editing software and know they can be expensive, especially Adobe lightroom. Do you have a suggestion for a cheaper/free photo editing software? If not, do you think it would be viable to delegate the photo editing process to someone else like a free lancer on Fiverr for example?(Untill I learn how to photo edit myself? | ||
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