Pricing in South Florida12965
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Joephoto114 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hello all, So I've been hanging out here for a little over a year now trying to take in all the information I possibly can in terms of how to get a real estate capture business off the ground. And I really appreciate everyones expertise, input and community support. So in that vane I am asking for your responses. My background is in commercial photography and I am having a really hard time understanding how the pricing structure here in South Florida can sustain a business model let alone feed a family. The pricing structures that I have seen blows my mind. Granted I understand the rates down here can't compare with the northern tri-state area, but I have seen some folks here selling their talents for $150 per home for up to a 2000 square-feet. How do you survive on that? You need to work your ass off. In my eyes that sends a wrong message to Realtors that you don't value your work. It's a Walmart mentality. Do you think a realtor would accept a .5% for commission rate regardless of how many realtors there are out there? No! They at least have some standards they refuse to go below. I find this as something akin to professional prostitution. Becoming the lowest bidder. Let's see how low we can go! And some of you are even throwing in Video or Drone shoots for the same price. Can somebody please explain to me how this business model can work? Anyone can get $250 for a headshot that takes them one hour and very little post. Why would anyone want to go into real estate? I realize this will sound pretty harsh to most of you however I think there needs to be some cohesive structured fees for the photographers in this marketplace to create a living wage for hard-working photographers. That's what we had to do in New York City in the 80's, by creating the APA, PPA and ASMP to protect photographers copyrights and set fee standards so that ad agencies and publications could not take advantage of hard-working photographers. I look forward to your responses. Thank you ASMP- https://www.asmp.org APA- https://apanational.org PPA- https://www.ppa.com All set fair market pricing structures |
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| #following | ||
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immersivespaces private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hi Joe. We are also here in South Florida on the other coast. We have been in the real estate imaging business for the past 17 years here in Palm Beach. Over that time, we have seen competition with other photographers and iPhone camera improvement both significantly impact our industry. Another factor we have seen is an increase in rental unit listings with much smaller commissions paid to the realtors. In turn, this pushes them to find "cheap" photographers, of which there are many willing to work for peanuts in our area. When we started our company, there where only four real estate photographers in our area, now there are nearly 250. The competition has driven pricing down 60% since I started my company. I have noticed that many of our competitors are photographers who offer other services, such as weddings, portraits, commercial, etc. We have differentiated ourselves by being locally owned and operated and 100% dedicated to only real estate imaging. That has allowed us to compete in volume, which is how we make the numbers work. Outsourcing processing and leveraging real estate technologies have also helped keep the operating costs down. Thankfully, we established our relationships with our realtors years ago. They are fiercely loyal, so that has also been a significant factor. Looking at the industry here in Florida now, I probably would have stuck with commercial work if I were deciding to get into this business today. It would not be easy to establish an association to help regulate pricing here in Florida. There are far too many photographers who don't care about the devaluation of their work. |
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Joephoto114 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Hi Immersive, Thank you for your great input. Seems like you are one of the few professionals in this industry. It seems to be inundated with hacks. Seems like anybody with a digital camera these days considers themselves a photographer. Thankfully you have a solid client base to keep you going. Wishing you much continued success and thanks again for your response.  |
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Expertise private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Look, ever Pro Photographer knows R/E photography is a tough business. The quality/price balance is a reaction to what the consumers demand. Also, the PERCEPTION from the public is that R/E photography is A- Easy B- Extremely lucrative So, we are over-run with new competitors. Most have little talent or experience and are unwilling to work their [redacted] off. So they flounder, deliver crap quality and slash their prices in desperation.. |
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Joephoto411, I understand that there are photographers out there that are not interested in photographing homes for $150-$200 per home, but I do not understand why you say that it is difficult to make a good living at this price point. My lowest price package is $150 for homes up to 2000 sqft, but my average appointment is closer to $230. That being said, doing just 2 appointments a day will yield an annual income around $100k after expenses. What kind of income do most photographers expect/desire to make? In my opinion, there is a huge opportunity to make significant income in this business if you are able to build a healthy client base. I average 5 properties a day and also shoot on the weekend if necessary. It took me about 3 years to build this client base, but building relationships take time. To me this is a great field to be in for a few reasons. The startup cost is relatively low, there is no need for a 4 year degree, you can earn while you learn and you have a lot of flexibility with your schedule. This has been a great fit for me and I do not see a lot of other opportunities with these kinds of benefits. JonJ |
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immersivespaces private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @JonJ South Carolina market and cost of living is significanly different than South Florida. The cost of living here is nearly double what it is by you. | ||
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I understand that the cost of living is higher, but how much do you need to earn in your area to "survive on"? My point is, 2 shoots a day can yield you a $100k/year income. 2 shoots a day is hardly a full time job. If you need to earn more, than shoot 4 homes a day. If that is not enough, then shoot 6 homes a day (not recommended, but possible). I argue that you will be hard pressed to find a profession where you can earn multiple 6 figures with a relatively low barrier to entry. I would say that the most significant barrier to entry is the motivation to work hard and keep on going when times are tough. Believe me, I almost gave up myself at the 3 year mark. I was fortunate enough to land a big client and that kept me afloat long enough to keep going. All that being said, I want to reiterate for those considering this profession, that this is not an easy business by any measure. Any business worth building will take a significant amount of work (60-80 hours of work a week for 1-3 years). And even if you are working hard, you have to focus on the right things. When starting out, actual photography is only about 20% of the business. The rest of the time, you should be pounding the pavement, making calls or working on your marketing. Some people think that just because you have a camera and website, clients will be clamoring to throw money at you...that just isn't the case. Trust me...that is what I thought would happened when I started my Matterport business in 2014. Reality hit when I struggled to give the tours away. At least now there is some brand recognition, but there are other obstacles to overcome now. My best piece of advice to anyone wanting to start a real estate photography/video/virtual tour business is this: Things are going to take longer, you are going to work harder and this will test you emotionally more than you can anticipate. So, hope for the best, but prepare for a long and difficult journey. OK, I am off of my soapbox now. Sorry about that. Always glad to help! JonJ |
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Joephoto114 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @JonJ “ Any business worth building will take a significant amount of work (60-80 hours of work a week for 1-3 years).“ That ends up being $21 per hour for 3500 hours based on a 70 hour work week. I don’t know of anybody that wants to work those hours each week let alone give up the weekends. Now subtract your expenses for cameras, Marketing, travel, meals, insurance and other expendables. And what about website fees to post your images on Matterport. Now you’re down to maybe $12 per hour. That is not what I would consider a lucrative business! Get real. | ||
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Like I said, it takes time to build a business. Just because you make $100k your first year doesn't mean that is what you will make the next year or the following year. From my experience, the work that I do today pays off tomorrow. I agree with you, it is not worth working to only make $12 per hour, but over time, that number will only grow exponentially. We all have the same 24 hours in a day. What you decide to do with it is up to you. I choose to build my business and grow my skills. If that is not what you want to do, then that is up to you. I do not view this time as work because I genuinely enjoy what I do! I happily "work" 70 hours a week because I am excited to practice my craft, to improve my skills and to help others with a valuable service that improves their lives. At this point in my business, I do not need to "work" this "hard" to live a comfortable life, but I believe that I have a lot to offer and I am continuously working to achieve my potential. This line of thinking may not be for everyone and that's OK. |
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Expertise private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've worked 60+ hours a week most of my life. That's about 45 years of working. I work 60+ hours now, and for the most part I love it. I'm in my 60s age-wise too. People who don't enjoy hard work rarely get anywhere. I looked at your portfolio of R/E photos and I can tell you with complete certainty that this business is not for you. Quote: Originally Posted by Joephoto114 |
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 WGAN FanClub Member Buffalo, New York |
GETMYVR private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Joephoto114 I sell by offering value that far exceeds the purchase price for nearly zero objections. you need an angle that immediately differentiates you from everyone else. People are looking for somebody who's different. For instance many matterport service providers in my area do not provide a video highlight reel. That's $150 value that I provide for free. We can convert your matterport 3D virtual tour into a video with or without narration for a small extra charge of $50. Most real estate photographers charge for photography and then they charge extra for the virtual tours or the crappy slideshows that they pawn off to the agents as virtual tours. The national average price for real estate photography is $350 for a set and I provide them for free. Images go through a post-production process that may include adoble Lightroom, luminar and photomatix for a purely professional 16:9 wide-angle ratio you will only find normally on million Dollar listings. Most agents provide a single link for a simple virtual tour. I provide three various virtual tours two of which are built on custom branded micro sites including a branded site which includes your agent information and a contact form to reach you. This is typically around $125 value but I provided for free. Most savvy real estate agents would like to have photography, a virtual tour and drone photography. for most agents the ala carte pricing provided by most virtual tour and 360° photographers pushes them outside the cost parameters in the agents head so they only purchase the cheapest plan. When I show up to a photo shoot I bring all the tools to use for you and your listing. At least 50 interior and exterior images are included but most importantly everyone gets as many drone shots that's required to properly present the property. This is normally around $175 value however I provide it for free. You'll get everything you need to properly execute and deliver the most dynamic content across every website that will host your listing. And let's not forget about Zillow. It's the number one website for real estate in the Americas, the 3D home icon gives you a 50% lift and views and more than 50% extra saves. The next buyer of your house will probably find it on Zillow. In order to gain maximum visibility on Zillow you need a 3D. When you purchase our matterport virtual tour and photography service, we include this for only $50 extra, saving you another hundred dollars. Aside from the Zillow everything mentioned above is included as a feature in our most basic service. We offer a few upgrades because you need everything to be successful, and it's included in what we're offering you. Pricing starts at $150 for 1,000 ft and for every 750 ft add $50. Simple and fantastic and capable to sell your property. I can have it ready within 24 to 36 hours. P.s. Zillow is easy money and a good tie-in to other services just so you know. Go to Zillow right now in your area and pull up the map and look at all the property listings that do not have a 3D home icon. you can go to the listings that don't have the icon and clearly see who the agent is and let them know that you do Zillow 3D tours and offer an upsell to matterport and better photography. I'll admit I love doing this type of work. I think it's very cool and I haven't begun to reach anywhere near my potential with all the software that's out there. You can create bespoke 100% custom virtual tours for a myriad of companies using software such as pano2vr and stun and I mean stun people and they step onto that virtual tour. That's what motivates me. P.s.s I don't own a DSLR or regular camera. You can add a fish eye lens to your camera gear and blow people away with ultra high quality panos. and don't forget about Google Street view there's millions of businesses that need 360 virtual tours and you can charge 500 bucks a shot. |
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GETMYVR uhm, what? I am confused. What gear do you use? |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @JonJ I went to your website. I have a question? Are you a photographer or an image editing company? Chuck |
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by PickChuck I do both. I started my Matterport business, part time, in 2014 and then added traditional photography services in 2017 when I went into the business full time. I added image editing services in 2018. |
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PickChuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That’s a nice progression. Great job. Chuck |
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dave3d private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Acquiring new tech and learning the ins and outs isn't profitable. I don't care what the business is. It could be a trade, IT, VR, you pick. That's just the tech side. Not the "understand how 30 add-on apps apply" side, or the marketing and sales side, or the contracts, scheduling, billing, and collection sides. Starting a business is a challenge. Most fail. It takes dedication and (in my opinion) low income, like REALLY low income per hour, on the startup side (for most). Those who have the interest, commitment, curiosity, talent, and possibly mentoring will succeed at it. Those who don't won't. There's a reason 80% plus of realtors are out of the business quickly. Real estate is hard, but so is everything else. If you love the tech, are creative, can learn the business operations and marketing, maybe you'll stay with it and succeed. But regardless of the cost of camera, be it Pro2, BLK (take 20K off your receipts) , Z1, or your IPhone, it takes desire, commitment, and sacrifice to learn this or any other tech and to create an ongoing business from it. Is there competition? You bet! If not there's probably no market. Best of luck! But don't think JonJ's comments regarding hard work early are silly. New businesses grow from seedlings. They don't start out as "bumper crops". That said 100K a year for a one person operation doing 2 scans a day isn't the norm and I hope JonJ appreciates the accomplishment if those are his numbers. Dan might be able to tell us what the norm is with a survey if people elected to share. Regardless, my input and $5 dollars or so may get you a Starbucks - so take it for the value it's given at "no charge"  . |
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Expertise private msg quote post Address this user | |
| We owned a relatively large R/E brokerage for over a decade. I always told prospective new agents that getting a successful real estate career is like a jumbo jet trying to take off. It takes 110% throttle to even get off the ground, anything less and you crash spectacularly. Once you get to cruise altitude you can enjoy the view. Real estate sales (and now real estate photography) attracts a lot of people who think it is WAY easier and WAY more lucrative than it typically is. Quote: Originally Posted by dave3d |
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