Getting started with little money12890
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hello everyone I have some questions about how I can get started in the 3D scanning and virtual tour business. First of all, I’m not an expert or professional in anything because I’m in high school. However, I’ve been very interested in stocks, real estate, and business. Since I’m a high schooler I don’t really have much money to spend, and that’s kinda the problem. I would love to buy a Z1 and nice equipment, but I really only have $600-$700 to start my business. This is obviously a limiter on what I can purchase, so I want to make sure I’m using every dollar to it’s max. My parents do have connections with some real estate agents, and my dad is in the process of becoming one rn, so could that be a good way to start? Also the SC2 seems like a good camera option, but I’m worried about it’s photo quality. I’m located in the west suburbs of Minneapolis where the average house is 425k and 2,400 sf, so is an SC2 quality enough for that? There are also a lot of 1-5 million dollar homes, but those are big ticket clients, so I think I would want to wait until I can provide better quality right? I was also thinking that kuula could be a good software to use, but I’m sure there are other good and better options. Lastly, I just want to know what would be the best way to spend my money. Should I buy a cheap tripod and monopod so that I can spend more on marketing? Or should I just wait until December when I’ll have closer to $900 to startup? I know that’s a lot, and there are threads on some of these questions, but I just need advice for my situation. Thanks everyone for any feedback, I really appreciate it. Stay safe. |
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 WGAN FanCLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Fish Well welcome & congratulations on being ahead of most adults that didn't set a business plan The Z1 is an awesome camera and is supported within I believe most all of the 3D tour platforms The Theta V is not a bad starting point and has similar support with most all of the 3D tour platforms like it big brother the Z1 just not as good of quality That said dependent on what tour platform you plan on shooting the Theta SC2 you currently will lose the Matterport support but, It does shoot Zillow 3D home tours |
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is a Zillow 3D home tour shot on the SC2: https://www.zillow.com/view-3d-home/ac517843-d301-42b0-9bf3-527cabfc75c2?setAttribution=mls Within Zillow's 3D home tour platform the Theta V & SC2 are about Par |
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
The Theta's are my current favorites of the consumer 360 cams These are all unedited straight from the camera as a comparison Insta360 One: https://www.capturenwlive.com/tours/XHuqd7seN Insta360 One X: Supports Matterport 3D home tours https://www.capturenwlive.com/tours/BgAKy4nFXd Samsung Gear 360 2017: https://www.capturenwlive.com/tours/q2oHRcH1vC Ricoh Theta SC2: Supports Zillow 3D home tours https://www.capturenwlive.com/tours/w9M0YIWSgx Ricoh Theta V: Supports Matterport & Zillow 3D home tours https://www.capturenwlive.com/tours/c60rZMHGVK Ricoh Theta Z1: Supports Matterport & Zillow 3D home tours https://www.capturenwlive.com/tours/QTSp7_s1U Ricoh Theta SC2: https://www.zillow.com/view-3d-home/ac517843-d301-42b0-9bf3-527cabfc75c2?setAttribution=mls Ricoh Theta Z1: https://www.zillow.com/view-3d-home/19bb8006-6e09-472b-9613-90907f101a70?setAttribution=mls |
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Fish Are you just going to be doing VR or will you be offering VR and stills ~ Many agents like a "One stop, shop" where they can get all they need from a single vendor |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I was thinking that I could use my parents DSLR for still photos | ||
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When it comes to a monopod buy, it nice or buy it twice. My go to is the iFootage Cobra 2 71" Aluminum runs about $140 on amazon  |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Cool, thanks for the advice. What are your thoughts on Kuula? | ||
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Fish I haven't spent any time with Kuula ~ I primarily (for VR) shoot Matterport & Zillow 3D home tours and then for other projects I have a CloudPano account |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Do you know where I could buy a Theta SC2 business edition, because I can’t find one to buy | ||
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have had a sc2 and also have used and considering keep on using kuula. I since have Upgrade to Z1, but the sc2 wasn't bad. Here a example shoot with SC 2 and kuula https://kuula.co/share/collection/7lry2?fs=1&vr=1&initload=0&autorotate=0.12&thumbs=1&margin=10&chromeless=1&logo=1&logosize=86 |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks, that was really cool. Do you know how hard it is to remove the red dots in post? | ||
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Fish I do not believe the business edition of the SC2 is for sale in the US as of yet |
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WGAN Fan CLUB Member Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
lilnitsch private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Fish Fairly simple with photoshop cc ~ it can be done on a mobile device with something like TouchRetouch as well |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Awesome, you all have been a huge help. I just have one last question. What other random expenses can I expect. I need a camera, tripod/monopod, software, dslr for stills, a website, and maybe a separate software for editing photos. What else am I going to need to buy? | ||
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 WGAN ForumFounder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Screen Grab from Asteroom Pricing Page (Asteroom 3D Tour Kit Starter Package) @Fish Welcome to the WGAN Forum. If saving money is a priority - rather than faster workflow - you might consider shooting 360s with a smartphone paired with a rotator + smartphone case + fish-eye lens to create excellent quality 360s. On this Asteroom examples page, select Pano to see smartphone shot tours. For less than $100, the Asteroom 3D Tour Kit includes: ✓ rotator ✓ tripod ✓ fish-eye lens ✓ camera case (for your smartphone to attach fish-eye lens) ✓ free Asteroom Pro Plan for one month ✓ free 3D Dollhouse (1st one) ✓ free imagine enhancement (1st one) The above would allow you to get started faster; and save money to buy the Ricoh Theta Z1. And, the imagine quality will beat the SC2 and likely even the Ricoh Theta Z1. The only reason I do not recommend the above to real estate photographers is the time that it takes for the smartphone to rotate "times" the number of 360s. (Time is money!) Since you are just starting out and you are watching every dollar, this might be the path for you. Your thoughts? Best, Dan |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That’s something I haven’t thought about yet. I’ll definitely check out that option for starting out. Thanks | ||
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 WGAN Fan Club Member Gilroy, California |
Dataventurer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Fish, I commend your initiative and drive! I have an SC2 (not Business) that I bought just a few weeks ago. There is an in-depth comparo of the two models on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJl59kGh-LA&t=3s That same channel has another video doing more comparison of the two SC2 cameras. I chose an SC2 from Amazon at $296. My recollection is that the Business version has a couple presets (you can shoot from just one lens side to easily move out of the photo) but the regular SC2 seemed to have more flexibility with the exposures. Also, Ben Claremont did a very favorable review of the SC2 last month: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl0scWI6h8&t=23s As far as a monopod or tripod, if you are mostly going to shoot with the SC2 (which is very light in weight), I would go cheap and buy something lightweight and easy to pack and easy to move around a house as you shoot. I bought a monopod on Amazon for $30 that has several attachments. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q6ZCCY8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 If you are going to use a DLSR, you might consider a second "tripod" to be more stable and secure to handle the extra weight. Kuula is the tour app that I landed on after listening to Ben Claremont's comparison. They have a good, cheap plan. Also, check out Show and Tours for cheap single-page websites. For storing your videos, Streamable has a really affordable offer. You may have noticed I used the word "cheap" a few times. When you are starting, spend your money wisely. You can always move to better equipment and more sophisticated tour platforms as you make money. I think you are wise targeting the segment of the real estate market that is not likely to spend the marketing $$$ for a Matterport tour. I just spent a couple days doing research on the use of 360 tours in my local residential home market. There were 84 active listings on August 18. 31 (37%) had tours (almost all but a couple were Matterport). Of those 31 tours, 23 (74%) were for properties over $1M. 7 properties (22%) with tours were between $700K and $1M. Of particular interest to me was that 28 properties over $1M had NO 360 tour! I'm going to be calling my real estate associates over the next few days to find out why they are choosing NOT to use 360 tours. My hypothesis is that it's the cost. Fish, I think you could target the middle and lower range of the market, offer 360 tours at half the cost of Matterport, and make a lot more money than working at Taco Bell! Keep us posted! |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Dataventurer thanks a lot for the info. If you don’t mind me asking, what city were these numbers from? As you were saying, I think I’m gonna try to target the lower and middle market at the beginning because I’m using the SC2 and it just won’t offer the quality of the Z1. Hopefully I’ll be able to get some more average houses which are like 450k and 2,400 sf where I live, and then upgrade equipment and prices | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Gilroy, California |
Dataventurer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The area I did the research on is in northern California, south of San Jose about 30 miles. Take a close look at the comparison of the photos at the top of this thread. I agree that the Z1 has a smidge better quality, but for the average home buyer scanning through photos and videos on Zillow, Redfin, Coldwell Banker, etc., the quality differences are barely noticeable unless you are an experienced photographer. It's called "the law of diminishing returns", when you pay double for a Z1 that gives you only a 15% better photo. There are also other solutions to increase the quality of the photos if you feel it necessary. Did you see the article here 18 days ago on Topaz Gigapixel AI software? https://www.wegetaroundnetwork.com/topic/12690/page/1/video-instantly-double-your-image-quality-topaz-gigapixel-ai-tutorial/#2 That could be a solution to consider, $99. Remember, you are offering a completely different "quality package" as a Matterport tour. It doesn't have to be the "best quality", just the "best value". You are in a particularly unique position because you have no overhead (as in mortgage payment, car payment, insurance payment, etc.). You can offer a price that agents can't refuse. As you gain experience and capital, you can showcase your work and expand your offering to drone shoots and high-end video walk-throughs (which I found in my pricing comparison research to be more costly than Matterport tours!). |
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Dataventurer What is the benefit from streamable to youtube? Thanks |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Gilroy, California |
Dataventurer private msg quote post Address this user | |
| When I post on YouTube, extraneous "stuff" shows up on the screen after my video ends. Yes, it's free, but not the kind of control I think is needed for showcasing a property. Vimeo is an alternative to YouTube, but it's not free (and even small "not free" monthly charges add up!). Streamable is $9 per month for All You Can Eat. Check it out: https://streamable.com/pricing Their support was great when I was trying to figure out how to minimize the screen border. You can see a site that I did (my second one) to see how the viewer appears. https://show.tours/17440chesbrolakedr I hosted the videos and slideshows on Streamable, the web page is the one offered by Show and Tour (check that out, another great, valuable product!). I shot the two videos with my LG G7 phone and edited in Cyberlink Power Director. The two slideshows are the Ken Burns style, which are ridiculously easy to create with an app from Ashampoo, Slideshow Studio HD (for $10!!!!). https://www.ashampoo.com/en/usd/pin/1066/multimedia-software/slideshow-studio-hd-4 |
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johnwheatley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like the business planning. Way to GO! The tech/equipment stuff is much better addressed by others, but I think I do have a pearl of wisdom to share with you. You mentioned your parent's contacts and asked if that was a good place to start. YES! Business, any business, is all about relationships, and that is where you should start. Your main marketing thrust must be to cultivate relationships with potential clients and with referral sources who can introduce you to potential clients. The marketing activity called Sales is the activity of building relationships. As they say, it's not what you know; it's who you know. But really, it is the level of trust and value that those who you know attribute to you that matters. People do business with those they know, like and trust. That, right there, is more important than anything else. You can figure out all the technical know-how stuff as you go. But you need people to get you going. I would suggest not spending your limited money out the gate on glossy brochures, etc. Photocopy a two-sided sheet with a price list, contact info and a brief list of services. Do a simple free Wordpress website, or similar. Then, keep your relationships happy. The key to happiness is in expectation management. So never promise more than you can deliver, or you will ruin the like/trust factor right now. Be honest about what you can and cannot deliver and when you can deliver it (set expectations), and then always do just a bit better (exceed expectations). If you do these two things consistently (nurture relationships and manage expectations), you will be successful in business and life. That is a potential 300-page self-help/business/spiritual book distilled into one sentence. (BTW, if you learn to manage your own expectations in every aspect of your own life, you will be on your way to understanding the key to your own happiness (and Buddhism). A little extra pearl; no charge.) NOW GO GET 'EM! |
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Fish, Based on the information that I have read in this thread, there is a lot of great information about what type of equipment and software that you can invest in. However, because you are in a unique situation, in that it is not absolutely critical for you to earn income to support yourself or anyone else (this is an assumption) I would advise you to "Work to LEARN" instead of "Work to EARN". Many individuals that get into this type of work are not prepared for all that is required to run a successful real estate photography business. Just because you have a camera doesn't mean you have a photography business. There are a lot of things to invest in before purchasing equipment. If you were my teenage child, I would advise you to invest in education before equipment. Being able to take pictures of houses is only a small part of what makes a business successful. Of course, you will need to know how to create a tour and/or take pictures, but even this does not require you to purchase equipment. Before making a decision on what equipment to purchase, take some time to create a written plan on how you will operate your business. Who is your target audience? How do you plan on attracting these clients? What types of services are you planning on offering? What workflow is required from order to delivery for your service offerings? Do you have the infrastructure to support this workflow? Do you have any marketing material? If not, how will you create this? How/where will you distribute this material? Are there any legal/tax aspects that you need to consider? Do you need a business license or insurance?...The list goes on and on... If you are not prepared to answer these questions and just want to purchase equipment to learn how to take pictures and create a virtual tour, then my advice to you is to NOT start a business and work for another photography company. Going this route will allow you to focus on learning your craft without getting distracted by all of the other things that are required to run a business. Once you are a proficient photographer/virtual tour provider, then strike out on your own. The last thing you want to do is to start a business offering a low quality product. Word will get around quickly that you do not provide quality work and it will take a long time to recover from that initial stigma. I know that this is not the advice that you were looking for, but I thought it might be helpful to get a different perspective. I do hope all of the best for you and if you have any additional questions, I am happy to help. Best wishes! JonJ |
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @JonJ I appreciate the honesty and real talk. I’ve already thought of some things like my target audience, services, and a few ways to market myself. However I don’t know much about insurance or taxes. Will I need these No matter what? I also think I could spend more time figuring out more marketing ideas | ||
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Fish private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Do you also think that getting something like Ben Claremont’s virtual tour pro course would be a good way of educating myself on how I can run my business? Obviously there are a lot of great resources for free as well. | ||
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Fish I just went through ben's course. If you have little to no 360 experience and no to little Photography experience then it will help you for sure. I did get little out of the photography part, just because I have basic understanding of photography before as well as watched many free resources. I did most like the Business part of it. That being said most of that part is done of the cloudpano guy. He might have some free stuff out there as well, that might be similar. So while it's good (only good fore me because what i already knew) I don't know if you could invest that better. my 2 cent |
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Jacksonville, Florida |
thereal360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Fish Yeah I am figuring out as well if i should get my business license right away or wait until it generates some noticeable income. |
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Fish Here is my obligatory disclaimer: I am not a tax professional and none of the information that I provide here should be taken as tax or legal advice. Please contact a competent tax professional to discuss your specific situation. With that out of the way, this is an important lesson. Uncle Sam always wants his piece of the pie! If you plan on making money, you will need to pay taxes. Further, if you end up doing a substantial amount of work for an individual agent or business, they will ask you to fill out a W-9 since they will be paying you as a contractor. This income will be reported to the IRS and you will be responsible for the taxes. There are a lot of other aspects of this that you will want to look into, but as I said above, you should talk with a tax professional so that they can help you when it comes to taxes. As for liability insurance, this is something that you will want to get as well. The reason for this is because some potential clients will require that you are insured to protect them and their clients. Having insurance also protects you as well. Since you will be in many different homes, there is a lot of potential for things to go wrong. You may trip and fall injuring yourself or damaging property. Someone in the home may trip over some of your equipment and get injured. You may get sued for who knows what reason! Fortunately none of these things have happened to me (knock on wood), but I know that if something were to happened, I will be protected. Quote: Originally Posted by Fish I cannot speak to the quality or content of this specific course as I have not taken it, but investing in quality education is always a good investment. There may be other members that give a review of Ben Claremont's course. For me, I have been investing more of my time with business books. When I started out, I watched a lot of YouTube videos from different photographers. I ended up piecing things together over time with a lot of trial and error. If I were to do it again, I would invest in a succinct course that covers all of the bases or find a mentor that would be willing to train me. |
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jen_ishayoga private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @fish Hola and welcome aboard! Question for you ~ what market are you interested in getting into? You had mentioned 360s but later go into real estate and photos. So many of these markets bleed together, which is awesome and you'll probably have a lot of opportunity across the board! My specific focus (right now) is REP. One thing about this area, specifically, is that agents are looking for a one stop shop. You may offer 360s but there will be an expectation that you also know how to take a photo, shoot video, make a floor plan, etc. If your initial network is real estate agents and doing residential homes then, kind of echoing the above, I highly encourage you to take advantage of your network and learn how to do as much as you can. Not everyone gets a network so your learning curve is going to be awesome, fun, fast. Similarly, if your long term goal is focused on 360s, there will still be an expectation that you know how to take a photo. Even better, you should sell photo. So, anything you end up practicing and getting good at will be to your advantage. As far as gear, these guys have pretty much nailed it down for you.  Once you get going, feel free to start posting your stuff and we can help critique. If you need some feedback on your REP work, I'd be happy to review it with you. (Wish I did all this when I was 17! Unfortunately, the world was 8-bit color and we rented movies from Blockbuster.  )~Jen |
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