Important: Offer Payment Plans3403
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| As of today, I'm offering a monthly payment plan for my customers with a low entry fee. http://www.metroplex360.com/matterport-3d/ I want to challenge EVERYONE in this community to introduce a monthly payment plan with a low entry. If we can standardize this price model moving into 2017, it will help us to grow our businesses. If you find monthly billing challenging, I would suggest checking out online billing software. I use http://www.freshbooks.com and have used their service for years. It has saved me a lot of time and made me more profitable and saved so much time. I pay $30/mo and consider it an employee that was hired for $30. It reminds customers after 30, 45, and 60 days as I have configured it to do. I collect on almost everything. For those clients who are mentally challenged, I can quickly glance at who needs a friendly phone call. |
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lisahinson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Metroplex360 Great idea! I had consider a low fee upfront with payment on closing but this makes a heck of a lot more sense. | ||
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am super excited and my marketing engine are revving for 2017! | ||
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 3D RenderingsAEC Elevation Drawings Montreal, Québec |
ArchimedStudio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Interesting! But does this work for the real estate industry? Once a property is sold, the realtor will never continue to pay (or at least, he will not want to!)... We've tried offering (to a very few hand-picked realtors) half of the payment at the beginning, and then half when if/they sell (if they don't sell we lose 50%!!)... Would you believe NONE were interested? They prefered getting a small discount at the beginning (15% off) rather than having to pay 100% (they didn't even consider we were sharing the risk, and they might only pay half the price)... realtors... that's all I have to say. Matt |
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Gibbsboro, NJ |
Radie842 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For my real estate customers I charge an upfront fee of 50 bucks then balance due upon delivery the invoicing system I use is by wave apps and it sends them a reminder to pay the bill every three days when it's past due | ||
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It is a good idea. Of course, implementation depends on the jurisdiction you make business in. In some countries it is easier than in others I share the feelings of @ArchimedStudio regarding real estate agents. I have started doing business in Canada just three weeks ago, besides my office in Buenos Aires, and in dealing with the canadian real estate agents I am facing the same reactions. |
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Helen private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Metroplex360 I am trying to wrap my head around this. So if a client on average does 2000-4000sqft homes. They pay $20 per month and $100 for each model. Is that correct? In that instance if they did 5 models there bill for the month would be $520? If they did this for the entire year, you would do 60 models for them. Your compensation for those 60 models would be $6240. So divide the $6240 by 60 models your average pay per model would be $104. Or do I have this entirely all wrong? |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Everyone -- This pricing concept does NOT work for Real Estate. It works for businesses (retail, restaurants, etc) and apartment management. It's smart. I reacted to Matterport's soliciting of a client (At a higher level than I was working with mind you) with a huge amount of fear earlier -- but then I realized that their pricing model actually works a lot better with non-residential. I've spoken with several peeps at Matterport today and I think that had I not been so reactionary, I could have used the information I gained to encourage everyone here a bit more. -- @Helen / @ArchimedStudio - If you wanted to do this for Real Estate, it would have to be a separate price model. This is definitely for clients who will use the tour for many months. |
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Helen private msg quote post Address this user | |
@Metroplex360 I think I get it now. So say a restaurant owner has 2. Although they may only pay the $200 for the two models you have an ongoing income source of $20 a month that could potentially last years. If you had a 100 people doing this that could be an ongoing income of $2000 a month, $24000 a year. Potentially for 10 years $240 000. That sounds like a good retirement savings plan. |
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JonJ private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey @Metroplex360, I am still a little confused on your pricing structure. Based on "* Monthly contract covers 1-5 tours and is designed to fit into business and property management budgets. After 24 months, no further payment are due. Payment plan is only valid for models captured within a single trip.", are you saying that you are only charging $100 total for anywhere from 1 to 5 models as long as they were all captured on the same trip? And then, is the monthly fee determined by the total area scanned? My apologies if I am the only one who does not understand your pricing structure and thank you in advance for your clarification. Thanks, Jon |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Helen Yes, however, I'm placing a limit to 24 months so that I stay competitive. @JonJ - Yes, $100 total for up to 5 plans and the monthly fee is based on the total SQFT for all 5 models. It sounds insane, but basically, in the long run, it costs the client $100 more if they 'finance' it. Do I want people to sign up for payment plans? No, I'd rather be paid up front. If a larger company offers payment plans like this, do I want to be competitive, yes. I have had several positive conversations with Matterport today and while I do not agree with all of their ideas at their current stages, I believe that offering this sort of pricing will compete against what I believe is to be their aggressive marketing towards the multi-family sector. There is nothing wrong with Matterport are doing -- they are targetting a market that has relatively little penetration and handing over the jobs to MSPs at rates that may or may not be agreeable. There is also nothing wrong with competing with what I believe their price points to be. There will be companies that choose to directly deal with Matterport -- or Outhouse -- or any established brand rather than dealing with an individual photographer. Especially if they want 1 contract for multiple regions. In the meantime, I want my existing clients and my future clients to see that I offer the same value equation as well as the traditional pricing structures. -- I added some clarity on my site "We offer three different pricing structures in order to work with clients in multiple industries." |
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Metroplex360 Is your new price structure reflecting a price reaction to what you perceive as a threat from Matterport dealing directly with big clients or is it an attempt to speed up your customers intake under the hypothesis that the reason why you don´t have more customers is because they cannot afford your services? Reacting to Matterport doesn´t do any good to your business. Matterport will attempt to contact big corporate customers, ubberizing these project to unemployed or not too ambitious MSPs. Those corporate customers will never deal with an individual, so they are not your market. Not threat there. The price hypothesis is valid as an hypothesis, but it has not been proven. Are people not adopting Matterport because it is expensive or because they don´t see value in it? This is what I think: if a shop owner, who pays $7,000 a month for renting a space in a big city's downtown doesn´t pay $600 or $ 700 for a Matterport model, it is not because the price is high, but because he/she doesn´t understand the value proposition. In that case, lowering the price will not solve the situation. In my experience, after 13 months working with Matterport 3D models, the price has never been an issue. No single business prospect ever told me that my prices where high or that they couldn´t afford it. Their objections were about the actual usefullness of the 3D model for their business (Will I sell more because of this model in my website? Will I be able to charge higher prices or will I have more reservations for my hotel? We are doing great, sales are good, why should a put money in this 3d thing?, etc, etc) In my opinion, there is no need to lower prices or to offer 24 months plans to those who see value in the service. The others....well, I am not sure that they will become your customers because of the 24 months plan. But, as they say, there are only two things in life you can be absolutely certain: death and taxes. The rest has to be proven. I might be completely wrong. |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jfantin It's a reaction to Matterport offering new pricing directly to clients that I already have. Matterport approached the company that I work for on a regional level at the nationwide level with their new structure. It's a difficult situation -- if I'm getting a modest amount of business at the local level, but they decide to adopt company-wide at a national level -- there's no wrong doing. My regional level contact reached out to me with concern as he wants to continue to do business with me. After much thought, I realized that offering the same pricing structure (albeit with a 24 month limit on payments) will keep my services in line. Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin You are correct for the most part -- however -- I do work with BIG corporate customers on a regional basis including home builders and apartment management. Some are on my portfolio, some are white labelled. The same scenario has come up recently with another Matterport provider who offers on a nationwide level. Matterport actually referred me to the customer -- I spoke with them -- and then found out that they are working with a nationwide Matterport provider that I work with too. So, if that goes through, more than likely I will work the regional level for the national level MSP Confused? Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin From my experience with multi-family and builders - they often times have a set marketing budget. Offering payment plans and monthly fees can fit those rigid budgets. Another thing -- look at the iPhone and compare the # of people who pay $750 for it vs. the number who subsidize it with monthly payments on their mobile bills. I think that in some cases, monthly payments just make sense. Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin Absolutely. Unless, perhaps theoretically, someone else is marketing a low entry fee with monthly fees and that business has a marketing budget already and then you are out of the running. Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin None of the clients who purchased from me ever had pricing issues. Those that did probably didn't call -- I give my pricing on my site. Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin OK, then I have to ask -- why would Matterport consider offering a low entry price with a monthly fee? Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin I'm still offering per sqft prices with flat rates available when the equation breaks down. Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin In the US - As a general rule, there is a ten year statute of limitations on IRS collections. This means that the IRS can attempt to collect your unpaid taxes for up to ten years from the date they were assessed. Subject to some important exceptions, once the ten years are up, the IRS has to stop its collection efforts. |
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Metroplex360 there are a lot of things to consider and this dialog is producing very rich material to analyze. Let me pick just one piece of it: Quote: Originally Posted by Metroplex360 I believe that what Matterport is doing is to pave the way for a nice IPO. Their investors need an exit strategy that works and in this sense there are two valid alternatives: - Selling the company to a bigger one (we have discussed this issue before within this forum) - IPO so the shares of the investors can be downloaded in the market Matterport is not interested in creating job opportunities for the MSPs. What they really need is a steady cashflow that they can prove will be sustainable in time. 24 months looks like a very nice time horizon and hence they are trying to make as many models as possible in the shortest period of time, so they can secure monthly payments. Lots of monthly payments. By doing so, there will be collateral damage: prices down to absurd levels, and a benchmark that will be very difficult to change. All of us will have to reduce our prices and a lot of value will be destroyed. In the meantime, the investors will have cashed in their investments and will be looking for a new venture to invest. |
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Helen private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Metroplex360 Going back to still trying to wrap my head around this. What happens after the 24 months? I assume if it was a property management, restaurant etc They would like their model for an extend amount of time. Would you charge hosting fees? | ||
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aerialpixels private msg quote post Address this user | |
| interesting discussion here. am gonna camp in here to see where it goes. though to share my 2 cents, i see many companies, esp big boys, heading into subscription models. recurring long term income rather than slaughtering the golden goose, they prefer a slow bleed. internet and mobile plans. we dont think much about it and fork it out every month. then we have softwares. Adobe and Autodesk have now moved on to Software as a service type of models. Adobe has even monthly pay -per use of softwares. Autodesk cut its big flagship products from few thousand bucks for a perpectual license, to a thousand or less for a yearly subscription. even here in singapore's real estate world, a somewhat similar thing is happening. reducing the outlay for a buyer so that building developers can still attract buyers. ie, building smaller floor area units, so that more people can afford them. |
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Viewing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jfantin On the money. Whichever way it goes, the main thing I'm concerned about is that MP hasn't been bought out yet. A lot of energy is spent concerning ourselves over MP selling cameras and interfering with clients. Why do they do it? Just read @jfantin 's post above. Investors want a return. Especially the types of investors that would have pumped money into this. The investments or borrowing probably came from money linked to assets, not from sources linked to banks that are too big to fail; sums wholly generated on a computer screen. Just speculation. |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Helen After 24 months, no more payments are required and the tour is paid off. I keep it online as I do all my tours. I don't charge any hosting fees on my scans. I usually hit my quota of free scans that my hosting package allows each month, therefore, I don't feel that I'm burdened with a hosting fee -- therefore I don't charge clients one. It's up to you guys if you want to charge a residual. If I have one client with 100 tours, I may speak to them about them acquiring their own account. Any client who has hired me for 100 tours will likely be happy to do this. That way I never hit the [soft] limit of 300 tours. |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jfantin ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT THINKING!!!! Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin I would agree with you as far as the investors are not interested in creating jobs for MSPs. I truly believe that Matterport sees value in having MSPs and sees it as a necessary market to nurture. The amount of "nurture" if fairly analyzed might reflect the level to which they find it important (Somewhat Important / Very Important / Kind of Important / Not Important). There are many here who would likely say 'not important', but I'd like to personally believe that it's "Kind of Important" Quote: Originally Posted by jfantin I agree -- however, as I suggested -- we can hit the SAME pricepoints by shifting our one-time fees to being low entry + monthly fees and then show how the one-time fee is actually more affordable in the long run. |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by aerialpixels SAS (Software as a Service) and Music as a service turned me from a little software piracy punk to someone who has licenses for everything. I absolutely love it and depend on low payments/licenses. It's super smart and I'm glad you used these companies as examples. |
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Metroplex360 This is absolutely true. In the past I always had pirate copies of everything. 2 or 3 dollars to have Photoshop or Illustrator and even AutoCAD! The software industry has adapted to the market. But I am not sure that this is the same situation...Maybe I am being obsesively scientific here, but I still need to see evidence before changing my current price scheme. I am not sure that those corporate customers are going to chose Matterport for the installments, although any CFO will tell you that if the interest in those installments is lower than their cost of capital they will always preffer monthly payments. I believe that big corporations preffer to deal with another corporation because it is a lot of work to open several suppliers accounts (after all they are all employees no matter how glorified they feel with the capital C titles). I have been there and I have done that... |
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Metroplex360 There is always hope. |
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PHILG private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jfrantin I fully agree with your comment "any CFO will tell you that if the interest in those installments is lower than their cost of capital they will always prefer monthly payments." I have seen that my entire career in High Tech and most recently as an IBM software rep. That's why everyone seems to have gone to, or at least have as an option for a subscription model. I agree too, that you don't have to lead with this or even have it front and center on your site but at least have well thought out solution, in case you find a need. I have been considering a subscription model for a particular luxury realtor in my area. Offer him a monthly subscription fee of X that would provide him X scans per quarter and a discounted rate for additional scans beyond X. My goal is to have all his listings have a 3D tour - really differentiate him from the rest. He and his team average about 8 new listings per month. I'd be willing to make a little less per scan in return for guaranteed (minimum) business and still have an upside from there. Thoughts? |
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 WGAN StandardMember Las Vegas |
VTLV private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Metroplex360 I like how this post starts out as “Offer payment plans to clients” working great for businesses for the long term. With terms, up to 24 months allows you to control how billing goes as Matterport makes their changes that affect us as service providers, employees or slaves to their current/ever evolving system model. I currently offer my models free for 6 months with the client obligated to carry on hosting for an additional 6 months so I don’t get tied into a long-term commitment I may not be able to afford to service if the market saturates or agents go bust to help suffie the Matterport hosting. My continuation of the model could be soaked up by me.(and has happened in hopes for more business or exposure of great properties with great clicks). “If I have one client with 100 tours, I may speak to them about them acquiring their own account. Any client who has hired me for 100 tours will likely be happy to do this. That way I never hit the [soft] limit of 300 tours.” Just prior to Matterport hitting up all our clients and real estate agents to buy cameras this past summer and fall, the push was to encourage heavy users to get their own accounts to host their own models and pay us a small fee to shoot the model while they soak in the monthly residual hosting without the camera purchase and training. @jfantin has been spot on about every move Matterport has done since mid 2016. Every move has been investor based to make the management look good at signing people up for initial purchase and residual payment for good looking books. This is a model we have seen for the past couple decades of bosses coming in and making short changes to cook book numbers in preparations for a sale for these short term investors who have waited their 2-5 year waits for a rapid increase in value and are ready to sell it off to our 401ks where we the people take on the loss of the book cooking inflation until the #’s lean out at the 8-10 year mark or fail sometime after year 5, sometimes sooner. @jfantin is not an idiot or far fetched in thinking, get on his platform guys before hitting the defense button, he understands corporate background regardless of where you came from !!! (I've never met the dude and he's seen the stuff many are afraid to talk about). Back to @Metroplex360 Understanding the background of the stance Matterport management has taken and our need to take care of ourselves, I am open to the idea of handling a monthly income if the monthly billing doesn’t eat up too much of our time chasing monthly fees (this is where I stuck to the 6 month commitment in my billing, but it’s not sticking). I just signed up with Wave for this years invoicing and hope to understand more of where you are going here with 3 day follow ups versus my 6 month billing stance with clients. I find many agents and business owners trying to keep up with the Jones in hopes to make 40k+/yr. But where is their marketing budget? They play to be 80k/yr+ agents. Shouldn’t 8k/yr be going to marketing? But we know few are actually this disciplined. (they'll take vacations in a heartbeat and come back begging for leads the day they get back). If 80k is the case, they should be spending $666/mo in marketing (but of them, how many really do?). None of them are willing to be all in one investors when Matterport crosses their path, it would eat up their entire 1 month marketing budget of $600 on a scan for 1 home if they could even afford the shoot. Usually a fee many haven’t budgeted for that month (because I don’t think many agents get to the point to catch up and establish a monthly marketing budget, they either go on vacation or catch up on past bills to keep the look of white collar). If we come in and advertise the monthly fee and they are in for the initial sign up and $100/mo fee (a similar fee I see many paying to be part of a brokerage). This begins to make sense as to why this monthly approach should not be avoided allowing the business owner to spend the additional $500/mo (if it exists, this month next or the next year) diversifying their ads promoting our models that could subliminally help us get more exposure. My only caution on this is to understand the clients current lease situation and possibly charge a higher up front cost if the lease could go sour and end sooner than the 24 months explained here. We need to get the correct target cost that doesn’t hinder our end like a bank would form for interest based on initial purchase in the first acquirement period with a lean out positive. If we say the business owner bails, in less than the 2 year plan mentioned above, where do we stand as a business write off? I find this monthly commitment to be much harder to hold against a real estate agent with once the listing goes stale and has sat on the market with the assumption something is wrong with the property when payment stops. Those are things we have no control over when it comes to comps, sellers demands, jobs or the agent's lack of ability to push promotion. So how do we approach people for 1 year instead of 24 months? Given Matterports recent moves, I cannot bring myself to commit to any more than 1 year hosting in my 1,3 & 5 year plans for business. I could refer them to Matterport as was suggested 6 months ago. But I like this approach for profitability. I need to know the business owners lease situation and need to make a base that helps everyone’s hosting that I will not be on the hook for if Matterport encourages my clients to jump ship and go with one of the nationwide providers I am already competing with who wants to pay me slave wages for use of my camera and time. How do we do this without hosting being paid off at the end of year 2? It get re-contracted no later than year 2? Very intriguing piece before turning clients over to Matterport. It’s close to the idea of do we tell clients VR is free for the next 6 months? I went with yes. I worry I cannot trust Matterport and they could tell my clients at any time. The minute my clients learn from Matterport or another source VR is free the next 6 months, it’s another lost client due to trust. I appreciate your input everyone on whats best for our clients, then us, and then our dealings with the evolving Matterport service. |
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Viewing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If we're going to start charging hosting fees, we could set these charges as a community to standardise consumer expectations. The main problem we have isn't Matterport, their strategy or their hosting fees, it is (in my humble opinion) us not working together like we should to standardise consumer expectations and avoid having to undercharge for a service that is actually quite a skill. A person with a leaky tap calls a plumber to do the job. The plumber doesn't offer 40 different options as part of their standard service. They all do the same job as the other plumbers in their area. Their marketing and customer service is what makes them stand out - but they all do the same job. Trades succeed because they are essential. Our job is to make 3D tours an essential trade and that will be driven by public demand (accelerated via marketing in many forms). That's where we need to concentrate our efforts, not on hosting fees and the like. So why not just agree as a community to make certain costs standardised and focus our energy on drumming up business and making our tours an expectation rather than a luxury add-on? Why complicate things? |
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DSPhoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @metroplex360 It's a very interesting concept. Your volume of business must be considerable. Your market is certainly larger and more lucrative than mine. Cheers to you! I am floating the idea offering real estate property photo and tour packages for 3000sf or less that can be bought as 3 packs with a 15% discount or 6 packs with a 25% discount. Hoping that with a few of these packs sold I can get some upfront revenue. Any thoughts or experience with this approach? |
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DSPhoto, I have experimented with some promos like: - 6 models done in a 30 days period and you get the same price for each model as if it was a single property of the same aggregate surface. That is: 6 properties of 300 sq meters each would be invoiced as a single property of 1,800 sq meters (I have a pricing scheme where the more meters the lower the $ per sq meter is, so in practice this was an interesting discount). - All you can eat promotion: order as many models as you want before day/month/year and you get a 50% discount from our regular rate. (this was specially useful in the first days because I had a lot of idle time and my opportunity cost was really low) Both worked fine, although the companies involved didn´t keep the momentum and in the end I just made a decent number of properties but didn´t get a permanent customer with a regular flow of new properties. I haven´t figured out why I couldn´t establish a constant flow of properties (is it that they didn´t find the models were helping or boosting the sales process?) Your idea es good, and doable. The most important thing to consider is that you never have to start with a lower price with the intention of increasing the price in the future. It works in the opposite direction. So it is absolutely neccesary to call it a "promotion" or a "campaign", so you can go back to your regular price whenever you want and you always can say: "that was an special promotion for a short period of time". I hope it helps in your thinking process. |
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Frisco, Texas |
Metroplex360 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For what its worth, I have not had anyone bite on my experimental pricing that I've offered -- however -- I'm very proud to be offering it to hedge against Matterport offering the same deal to others. I have yet to hear about any new clients that Matterport have got -- but I must praise Matterport for sending me a GREAT lead that I shot today through their MSP program. Happens once in a blue moon and is a GREAT compliment to the opportunities that WGA has provided me! | ||
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jfantin private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It is worth @metroplex. Finding the right pricing scheme and price point is very tricky. In the end everything comes to the price/perceived value relationship. The monthly installments idea was good if your hypothesis was "people is not buying because they cannot afford the price of my service in one payment up front. And also it was a defensive strategy against Matterport's campaign targeting corporate customers. In another thread we discussed the idea of real estate agents paying after the property was sold. Some said it was reasonable, others didn´t like it at all. I think that this is still a trial and error game because the technology and the market are very young. In the end, only the MSP knows his/her numbers, needs, and the potencial of each customer. There is no book of rules. |
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DSPhoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jfantin "The most important thing to consider is that you never have to start with a lower price with the intention of increasing the price in the future. It works in the opposite direction." That, right there, is the truest of truths! Except for when I go to the grocery store. |
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