Video: Which camera is right for your company's Matterport digital twins?17786
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| Video: Shop Talk 42: 360, infrared, or LiDAR— which is right for you? | Video courtesy of Matterport YouTube Channel | 2 November 2022 Matterport Webinar: Find the Right Camera for Your Team | 11:30 am ET Wednesday, 2 November 2022 Hi All, Matterport Webinar: Wednesday, 2 November 2022 Our revolutionary Matterport Pro3 device will lead the charge with indoor and outdoor capture capabilities, better accuracy and faster scans. But where else might your next investment lie? Join us for an in-depth comparison of the Pro3, Pro2, Matterport for Mobile with Axis, and 360° cameras. If you’ve been considering a new camera and not sure which camera is right for you, make sure to tune. We’re here to help you decide. Source: Matterport eBlast Transcript (Video aBove) [00:00:00] Amir Frank: - Shop Talk 42, thanks for joining. Let's go ahead and kick it off. Couple of housekeeping, not rules, just recommendations. We've got the Q&A button that you see down there and your Zoom panel, and there's the chat button, and I really, really like to see these. We had a great chat last time with a lot of conversation in the chat. I love that. I really want you to see these as a meetup. We're all here to learn about the same stuff. Please go ahead and talk amongst yourselves and say hi, introduce yourselves and whatever is going on, and that's great. If you do have any questions directly to me, Chris, please use the Q&A panel for that. It just makes it a lot easier to find those questions when we get to that section at the end. This session, of course, we'll be recorded and will be available on-demand so you guys can refer to it and we'll send out those emails in a day or two. Today I have with me Abhijit Limaye, he's our Senior Product Manager, and knows all about the Pro3, which just took a big, big role in introducing and a lot of our cameras access as well, opportunity to that one as well I believe. Anyway, Kris Atkinson who is with us as well has a tremendous amount of history in AEC and can talk to measurement accuracy. I'm here with a lot of background in photography and talk about image quality. I think this would be a good one, I'm really excited. We'll get all things covered. Just wanted to get started with talking about digital twins. What it is, what it's good for. If you haven't heard this whole digital twin thing, what it is, what it means, it depends on the industry. Different industries, you have digital different sorts of digital twins. Chris will attest to that with AEC and I'm being very specific and what that means. But basically, it is a copy. That is a digital copy of a physical thing in the world. In the case of Matterport, we make digital twins of structures, of buildings. The places you work, your recreations, and live and sleep and eat and all that stuff. Buildings is what will make a digital twin of. The way digital twins help you, in general, is by either allowing you to better sell or lease, rent out the property, or collaborate and manage that property. Those are the two things that digital twins are absolutely brilliant at doing. I can get into the solutions and what that does. We do that in a lot of our webinars. In this webinar, I want to focus more on the product because a lot of people ask which camera is right for me. To be honest, not as much about you personally, but more your use case and we'll get into that. But I just wanted to point out what a digital twin is. If you haven't heard about it. If you search, you'll find tons of articles out there about these things. As far as the cameras that we have, we like to try and get every style and type of camera or as many as possible to be part of the Matterport family to be able to feed the Matterport processing engine that gets you your digital twin. You have everything from the Pro3 to your phone basically, and everything in between. We'll get to that. Here we go. I want to bring in Kris and Abhijit at this time to just talk about the cameras. Let's talk about the Pro3. Just to give you a quick overview, guys that the little lasers, whatever little pink dots that we have there on the side, and the measurement accuracy, 2D image quality, speed out or capabilities and stitching quality is something that we worked on for a little while and we use to give a broad general idea of the camera's qualities. Not just image quality, but also measurement accuracy and how to think about the camera. For the most part, it covers really all the things that you would want to think about when choosing the camera that's best suited for your use case and what you're doing with it, whether it's for real estate and you're selling the home, or if you needed to create a digital twin of a manufacturing plant and so on our AEC. Anyway, so Pro3. I want to hear from you. Let's start with Kris. What do you think about this camera? Tell me about use cases in AEC specifically and I'll tell you what I think about it. I want Abhijit here as well. [00:06:11] Kris Atkinson: I really love the Pro3. I was pleased for us to bring it to market in reality. Having a background in AEC, Lidar technology has always been the norm for a lot of years. The idea that you can scan any space, outdoor, indoor, large spaces, it doesn't really matter. That technology shift for us at Matterport and adding a Lidar camera to our portfolio really does open a lot of doors for customers who are wanting to capture those outdoor spaces. The unit itself, when I first got my hands on it, is very lightweight, very compact, so it can be transported about easily. The battery can be replaced in and out very easily as well. Again, you can take a model that lasts the whole day scanning if you need to. But I think two of the main features that we really like is that we having proved the measurement accuracy of our Pro2 version with the Pro3. Obviously that increased range as well. Now we can capture larger areas, outdoor spaces, with actually less scan positions. We're still doing a very good scan time at about 18 seconds per scan. Really great. Please, that is now out on the market and we can finally talk about it. [00:07:33] Amir Frank: Nice. - This was a big deal for Matterport putting this camera out and this was not easy. [00:07:47] Abhijit Limaye: - It certainly wasn't easy. But it is absolutely a big deal for all of the folks who are scanning outdoors and looking for a complete scan of a property. I'll talk a little bit about behind the scenes to add a little color to this. You guys heard about stitching quality and you also see the Pro3 mounted slightly skewed on the tripod, as you can see in this picture. This is another improvement that We always strive to make improvements. This is really about getting the image sensor on the same axis of rotation. Sometimes you might have encountered some stitching quality issues. This really takes care of that to a large degree because now you've got this image sensor and rotating on an axis. Every scan, every rotation doesn't have to be handled separately and calibrated as well. Because this is right on the axis. That's an interesting point to consider. Another one is you get lighter and excellent image quality from that big. We put a lot of effort in designing the lenses and the optical systems behind getting beautiful imagery on the lens that you see in front of this, we should expect some really, really great results from that. Then finally, sometimes we talk about speed. If you've used Pro2 in the past with Pro3, you'll actually see a little bit of an improvement. Because now the camera only takes four stops. This is made possible because of the larger field of view that we have on this lens and now you have to cover the entire field in say, about 90 degrees per stop approximately. That makes a huge improvement in speed. Overall, you'll just zoom through your spaces rather quickly at very high quality. [00:10:05] Amir Frank: - Absolutely. Another thing that I wanted to point out about our little rating system here, is the rating between the cameras that Matterport supports. You see a 2D image quality there being five out of five. Yeah, this is going to be the best image quality that you're going to find. At the very end we'll show you just a comparison between some of the cameras. Out of the cameras that we support between the Pro cameras, 1, 2 and 3. All the 360 cameras, this definitely has the best image quality and stitching is definitely, I think the only reason why it's 4.5 to 5 and not 5 out of 5 is basically because it has the four stops even though you're right apogee, with the axis of rotation being around that nodal entry point, you're really minimizing as much of the stitching issues as possible. You're not going to see what we saw in the Pro2, if anybody's familiar with that and it's brilliant. I absolutely love this camera. There's not much more I can say about that. I think we tackle that one. Pro2. We see this one also, image quality, I think is important here to distinguish between the image quality and the stitching quality. I purposely separated those two. The stitching quality is a little bit reduced in this one again because you've got instead of just the four images being stitched together and that rotation being around very precise access points purposely chosen to minimize stitching. Here you've got three array systems that cannot be aligned, just the architecture of the camera, the way it's built. It's impossible to align the nodal entry points of those lenses and so there are going to be slight issues with stitching in certain cases, especially when objects are closer to the camera, anything farther away, you're not going to really notice it. But that's it. Other than that, range, of course, this is, as we said, this is an IR camera, it's a different light sensor. But that being said, it is still an active depth sensor. You're going to have even better measurement accuracy with this camera than you would with something like your phone or the 360 cameras that we're about to look at. Any thoughts about this and the use case. This has been used for a very long time with Matterport. It's been a great, great camera. It is still a very good camera to go with. I think for the price, it's still pretty fast. When you say the Pro3 is super fast, it really is. This is maybe like 5-10 seconds per scan position, slower, maybe I think. Not much more than that. It is still, I would say, a considerably quick camera at what it does and brilliant image quality. I really have no issues with this. [OVERLAPPING] How about in AEC? What are your thoughts on this compared to the Pro3? I know outdoors is going to be a bit of an issue. [00:13:26] Kris Atkinson: - It is, yeah. I mean, that is obviously the first thing that comes up in the AEC markets. But what I would say here, and the emphasis on this shop talking in general is to go through these cameras and give you guys the opportunity to choose the right tool for the job. This is a unique camera. The Pro2 is still very much has a place in the market in that it's the only infrared camera out there and So at the price point, at speed, at how easy it is to use, it's really effective in capturing those indoor spaces. I would say there is a possible combination of both units and to kick a ball if need be. [00:14:07] Amir Frank: - Yeah, I agree with that. Differences between this and the Pro3? [00:14:15] Kris Atkinson: - Yeah. I mean, I think Chris covered many of them quite well. The only one I'll add to that is if you think about the range in general, when we talk about indoor and outdoor, sometimes it really depends on the type of space that you're trying to capture. If something's got tall, super tall ceilings imagine a church that is 100 foot tall, and so on, so forth, then you're going to have much better coverage with Pro3. But Pro2 covers a vast majority of other spaces that don't require that level of range either. You can definitely add some spaces. With Pro2s, you're going to have to space it out a little bit closer to each other. Pro3 allows you to go a little bit further, and so on, so forth, so larger spaces. Pro2 can cover those as well. If you've got the right space and a tool for it, both cameras, as I said, we want to give you the right tools and let you choose that. They are priced at different price points for a reason. They're both slightly different capabilities compared to each other, but they're still right for some use cases in the residential real estate space, for example commercial research basis, you can continue using Pro2 as you were before. [00:15:42] Amir Frank: - Yeah, I would agree with that. I think certainly in residential real estate, especially you're talking about most spaces that we see getting scanned or what like 2,000 sq ft, maybe 2,500 sq ft, something like that. I mean, the Pro2 is a brilliant camera, especially if you already own it, it still does a great job. That's what this is about, just because new technology is introduced and you can certainly expect it with digital cameras. I mean, as we know, Canon every year coming out with a new camera doesn't mean that you need to get a new camera every single year to still be taking brilliant images. [00:16:26] Kris Atkinson: - The image quality is gonna be absolutely excellent in Pro2 and Pro3 both. Definitely consider that as well. [00:16:37] Amir Frank: - Agreed and outdoor capabilities just pointing this out, being two-and-a-half. This is not an outdoor camera. If we haven't been clear enough about that. The issue here is that this camera is an active depth sensor. We're relying on that 3D data in order to stitch the panels, the scan positions. Your scan position has to be clicked into place like a puzzle piece with previously scanned positions and we're relying on that 3D data to do that. If you are outdoors, the infrared projectors of this camera have to compete with the infrared from the sun and let's be honest, the sun's going to just win every time. Even if it's cloudy and overcast, clouds diffuse infrared, but they don't block it completely. Just be mindful of that. The 2.5 out of five, there are ways of scanning outdoors, but it is not technically supported. The camera's not designed as an outdoor camera. Just something to point out. Leica BLK. This one is not a particularly fast camera, as you can see, one out of five, that is our slowest camera, but it's not designed to be fast. It's not supposed to be fast. Its 2D image quality also is not the point of this camera. Chris, this is the camera that you are very well familiar with, an AEC. This is a camera designed for measurement accuracy. That's why measurement accuracy out of these supported cameras that we have is five out of five. [00:18:23] Amir Frank: In terms of measurement accuracy this is, correct me if I'm wrong, six millimeter plus or minus at 10 meters. [00:18:29] Kris Atkinson: - That's correct, yes. [00:18:30] Amir Frank: - This is the best measurement accuracy and if that's your use case, if that's what you need, you need the best measurement accuracy for your use case this is definitely a good way to go. Chris, your thoughts on this camera? [00:18:46] Kris Atkinson: - It is. It's often in AEC, it's often the first question we get asked when considering a camera choice. What is the accuracy of it? Again, I always deflect a little bit and say, well, what accuracy do you need. I like to challenge the accuracy requirements because often the assumption is that more accurate is always better. You might be right on that. But what you have to realize is that accuracy does take more time and it takes more money to actually achieve that. Whilst the Leica is a great product, what I would say is if you want to achieve the best accuracy with Matterport, this would be the device to choose. [00:19:31] Amir Frank: - Yeah. Very good. I just saw a question come in from Carl. Abhijit, this one's for you. Are you going to support the BLK360 G2? [00:19:45] Abhijit Limaye: We are actively looking into it. It's a recent release from BLK and we don't support it yet but we are certainly looking into that. [00:19:55] Amir Frank: Very good. All right, 360 cameras. So 360 cameras, if you're not familiar with these cameras, in a single shot less than three seconds you capture the entire spherical image. It's not a candidate. Everything that we've seen up until now has to turn and rotate around an access point, this one does not. This one just sees everything. It's got two lenses front and back, each one sees 180 degree field of view and they get stitched together into a single 360 in instant. But the issue here is this is the first camera that we're looking at that does not have an active depth sensor. What's happening is we basically take the 2D 360 panel, put it through our processing pipeline and convert it into 3D. We've done this many, many times based on a lot of models that have both 3D and 2D and using machine learning and AI in neural networks and all that fancy stuff. We can get very close, really good measurement accuracy. Not as good as active depth sensors but pretty good. The speed you can see here is off the charts, five out of five. Hands down the fastest camera that supports image quality. It's okay. Out of these there are differences. I can't say that all of them are two-and-a-half out of five. There is a range, there's the Ricoh Theta z1 that's got very good image quality and then you've got something like the Ricoh Theta SC2 that is not honestly as good as the others. Smaller image sensor and we can get into the details of why and why not but that's about it. There's a range there. Stitching quality is definitely very high. Again, because you are just taking the two images and stitching them together. But here too if you have stuff that's really close to the side of the camera, right on the seam of those two images, you can possibly pick up some stitching marks so it's not flawless. What else? Outdoor capabilities. Not as good as you would expect I think. Maybe, I don't know, maybe you don't expect it to be very good. But that's because again, we're converting those 2D PAN-OS into 3D and the way we do that is by machine learning and we have our massive database to pull from. But most of those images in 3D data are indoor spaces, so we don't have nearly as much outdoor space. Now with the PRO 3 being used a lot more outside that database of outdoor stuff is going to grow and we are in fact always retraining the processing pipeline so this will improve outdoors but right now today it's not as good as active depth sensors as a laser, active depth sensors like on the PRO 3 and BLK. Use case. I think this is absolutely brilliant for something like real estate, meaning because it is so fast in and out. I know agents and brokers and photographers using something like the Ricoh Theta z1 because it's higher image quality. At a $1,000 price point you can have one of these things out in the field just bursting out helms left and right basically. Also one more thing that I did want to point out is you can use any of these cameras in combination in the same model. You're not restricted to just one camera per model. For example we'll show this at the very end here but things that have both small and large spaces, a great example of this is like a car dealership. You scan the whole dealership itself with something like a Pro2 or Pro3 and then squeeze yourself for the camera into the car to show that perspective. One of these 360 cameras is brilliant in my mind. Is there an AAC use case for this camera Kris? [00:24:06] Kris Atkinson: I think there is, and the way we have to look at this is that with a tool like this, with it being so portable, so easy, I mean, it's an instant 360 image generally. But also with the monopole interface and solution being so easy to use, this is a perfect tool for your site laborers. Your person who was coming in and wants to document the work that he's just carried out, he needs it quality checked and he needs it signed off by the site manager before his company and himself can get approved, signed off, and paid. Rather than sending somebody to go and get the Pro3 or the Pro2 or have an expert surveyor come across with a higher-end LiDAR, why not use something small, simple, and effective? Again, it really is that use case to be able to take a couple of images almost in a couple of seconds and have a 3D digital twin created of those areas sent across to somebody using the URL link, the collaboration features that we have. That's the job done. It's great for documentation and getting those collaboration efforts across the teams in the most effective way. [00:25:26] Amir Frank: Yeah, agreed. I think for smaller projects, single-family homes, things like that, I think this can just whip through in probably 20-30 min tops. I mean, obviously it depends on the size but very little amount of time. At the end of the day, grab that snapshot and get it processed and like a PM can check it out and see what's going on. Make updates, things like that, keeping clients up-to-date. Also the nice thing about Matterport I know in AAC is communication between the builder and all of the teams involved, but with the client, the person paying for the job who wants to be more involved, they're not a professional in that field. They know how to read blueprints or see what's going on. This brings them into the site without actually bringing them on-site and I think that's cool. [00:26:35] Amir Frank: That wraps it up. I think this is just talking about construction. This is scalable, this thing at $80, that includes the tripod. Just pull out the phone. It's super compact. This is the case. I mean, this thing is nothing. To set this up and just grab some scans of anything, especially if you've got it, I know clients of Matterport are using this and like restaurants, like big chains across the country or world. In fact, every manager this is a scale thing if you ask me. Certainly real estate can also use this. I'm very happy, I use this with my iPhone 12 pro max and the image quality was really, really good. I was very impressed. Again, here the added value is not only the convenience of scale but also the benefit of this over just hand-holding it is you get that axis of rotation to be very consistent and really tight around the lens as long as you line it up, roll. Abhijit, I want to ask you about this because you helped put this thing on the market and I hope to have some insight into how customers are using it. What the advantages they are seeing from it, what use cases are using it in. [00:28:08] Abhijit Limaye: Yeah, I mean, we've been pleasantly surprised in terms of how customers are using it which is exactly how we originally intended for this to be used. It's meant to be an affordable, scalable device. It's meant to give you all the power to use the smartphone in your pocket. What happens with just smartphones is that the output sometimes depends on the skill of the user. This access device pairing it with the axis takes that away, so now anyone is suddenly automatically upgrading yourself from a novice user to a semi-professional user of scanning properties. You can absolutely use it for your vacation rentals and put that online. For example we have a few chains, few corporate customers using that for updating their scans. So they have more than 40, 50 locations. Well, this is a great one to not have to send somebody to scan each property every week, every month as you need it, so you can have this literally local present at each site and scan the property whenever you want to. [00:29:26] Amir Frank: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. At $80 a pop, I mean, you can easily. That's what makes this thing so incredibly scalable. You really get true Matterport quality and a proper digital twin when using this in combination with your phone. I mean, it's a game changer for a lot of industries that have all those locations around that need them simultaneously scanned at once. [00:29:57] Abhijit Limaye: You'll notice that the stitching quality on this one is certainly greater as well. That's the reason for it, that you can center the axis of rotation on the horizontal axis and the vertical Axis and Axis as in no pun intended, Axis, lets you do that. It's great for those use cases. [00:30:19] Amir Frank: Yeah. Exactly. Moving on. I have to mention this as well. Another option is not going to the camera at all. That's definitely an option. You can just hire somebody to do the scanning for you. What that means is you'll probably get a Pro2 are Pro 3 scan, at least with Matterport capture texts, that's what the equipment they're using. Matterport is certainly happy to help you find a capture tech. But there are also other alternatives. Photographers who shoot for Matterport around the world. Basically, I think 170 countries like almost anywhere you are, you can probably find someone who has a Matterport supported camera and can scan for you. Also a good option. Let's talk about this real quick. Different use cases. Top-left, AEC. I'm going to go with Pro 3, Pro 2, and be okay. I don't know your thoughts, Chris. [00:31:30] Kris Atkinson: Again, all three of those cover that. I think those are the units that are going to provide you that ability to scan the environment very quickly. Because often they are very busy areas that are changing on a minute-by-minute or hour-by-hour basis. We can also use some of those entry-level ones we mentioned the Axis and the panel comes for capturing smaller areas where we may need to document the work or translate an issue to the design teams. But as you said, I think the Pro 3 is the ideal unit for AEC at this stage. The Pro 2 is still very much usable. If we do need that additional measurement accuracy then we do have the BLK support there as well. [00:32:18] Amir Frank: Agreed. Also something like this on the right top ride because of that high ceiling as Abhijit was saying, to capture all that data in 3D in order to really get the full benefits of the digital twin, I would say something like a laser device, a Pro 3 or BLK is probably ideal here. This one at the bottom left, this is just the car dealership scenario that I was mentioning before. Think about multiple cameras. You're not stuck with just one camera option, for that model. You can mix and match. Certainly for outdoors as well. If you don't have a Pro 3, you can start inside with the Pro 2 and work your way outside either at what's called the civil twilight, when the sun is just below the horizon, that Is the best time to scan with a Pro2 outdoors. Or you can have a go with the Insta360, it's very specific. But any one of the 360 cameras, as long as you stay relatively close to familiar objects, walls, furniture, things like that don't go off in the middle of the forest, you can try to scan with a 360 camera. [00:33:38] Amir Frank: In this more, I guess, residential real estate environment, I think a 360 camera would work. But again, I would just lean on something like the Pro 3, because it is outdoors. That's about it. Let's talk a little bit about this stuff, and we saw a question come in about this. These are assets that you can get from your digital twin. As you scan, you're taking thousands and thousands, potentially millions of measurement points. What can you do with those? You can get yourself a Matterport that's great for the AEC industry. Higher accuracy is going to be found in the e57 file, it's a file format. You can have Matterport create BIM assets for you where we actually generate ready 3D models of the architecture of furniture within the building of mechanical, electrical, and plumbing assets that you have in the building. Trueplan is also something that you can order. This is really good for the insurance and restoration industries. You use that as well as schematic floor plans. Below you can see the cameras that these assets require for their support. Meaning, if you want to order a Matterport, if you have 57 BIM files, you have to use one of these three. It's got to be the Pro 3, Pro 2, or be BLK, if you're doing schematic floor plans, Trueplan, those actually can also be purchased if you use a 360 camera and that's something that's relatively new. Just to keep that in mind. Let's go to the questions. Before we tackle the questions, I just want to show this one thing here. I'm going to go to this link that I put together. We can put this in the chat, but also include it in the email as well. But I did this together a while ago and more recently updated it with the Pro 3. I just wanted to point this out. That this is a model that I captured with every supported camera. So you've got the Pro 3, Pro 2, Theta ZI, the V, the SC2, 1x, and 1x2. So on and so forth down to the even the Leica could be okay, even though this just the living room and kitchen, happens to be mine. Will the Leica be okay? Not a great use case for that, but I just wanted to show you a comparison of the same exact space, same colors, roughly the same time of day with each one of these cameras. You can check out this article, go into each one of these models. One thing that I did most recently is actually take a laser measure, this one, in fact, I believe these are the gold standard, what everything is compared to. When architects send somebody out to grab measurements, that's what's used. I used that to grab the most accurate measurements of all these walls that you see here. This is a floor plan view of the space. You can see measurements A and E and so on, and exactly what those are in meters down to the millimeter. If I open up the Pro 3 model, and you go into the little measurement tool here. I grabbed these measurements already for you. You can do this yourself in any one of the models, of course, by using the measurement tool. You can see that it's currently default in feet. I'm going to change that to metric. I can see that this measurement line, according to my model, is 4.98 meters. [00:37:48] Amir Frank: Measurement line, according to my model, is 2. [inaudible 00:37:51], and according to the laser measuring tape, it's 2.97 meters. We're talking about millimeters off what is considered the gold standard of measurement, I think. I mean, am I wrong about that? I'm just saying it's the gold standard, kris? It's a track light, I don't know. It's this thing. Is this good? [00:38:14] Kris Atkinson: This is standardized lazier Standardized lazier, it's good up to 60 meters, I think this is pretty good stuff. The single measurement and obviously that measurement is typically very accurate. [00:38:27] Amir Frank: Yeah, exactly. I think this is what anyone in the industry that we're measurement accuracy is critical. They would be sent out with one of these to take these measurement lines, so I went ahead and did that. By all means, feel free to compare that to all the other models, so you can see for yourself exactly what we're talking about in terms of measurement accuracy. Just wanted to point that out. Again, we'll have that link for you, so you can do that yourself. And that's it. Let's go to the questions. Let's see here. Continue to work on the Pro2 stitching quality.? To be honest, the Pro2 stitching quality has definitely been this concerning battle and I've definitely seen it change and become better over the years. But because it relies on the 3D data to stitch, unlike the Pro 3 and the 360 cameras, it is relying on the 3D data itself. It's very difficult and that has to do again with the architecture of the Pro 2, how it's physically built and put together. It cannot possibly rotate around its nodal entry point, like the Pro 3. So we rely on that 3D data. Because in some cases the 3D data is not accurate, for example when objects are closer than 1.5 feet, 2 feet, roughly, the Pro2, it can't see them. They're too close. If it can't see you, it thinks you're at infinity, it thinks you're really far away, and so it's going to stitch accordingly. That's just an example of something that there's no way to get around. There you have it. I'm following up with my previous question about raw LIDAR data. I had Matterport support last week and they said the e57 file was derived off the mesh. I don't believe that's true. I want to make sure that this is in fact the data that is collected from the sensor. Because these are two direct answers I have now gotten. Kris, this is up to you. [00:40:41] Kris Atkinson: Yeah. I believe the point cloud raw data that you're seeing from an E57 file is that which is collected from the sensor, not from the mesh. [00:40:54] Amir Frank: I think so too. That's what I've heard. The mesh comes after the point cloud. It is slightly processed and the mesh that we provide is the best mesh that you can get, because you can't get the E57 as a mesh. It's only point cloud is going to be the matter pack and that is decimated. So that definitely needs to be addressed. [00:41:20] Abhijit Limaye: I think the confusion might be coming from the fact that we sometimes do some level of filtering, even though the rod point clouds just to make sure that there's no noise in the dataset. That might be I don't know if that's what they're referring to or if you're getting confused with the terminologies. But there is some level of filtering on the point clouds, but otherwise it should be. [00:41:48] Amir Frank: There is a filter but it's as close to the raw data as possible minus maybe some aberrations points that we see as inaccurate. [00:42:00] Abhijit Limaye: Correct. [00:42:01] Amir Frank: I know we do that with reflections, I guess to try and minimize reflections. [00:42:05] Abhijit Limaye: Exactly. [00:42:08] Amir Frank: What is the accuracy of the Pro2 at 10 meters? That's a good question. Nobody knows because it doesn't have that range. That's what makes comparing the Pro2 to the Pro3 in terms of measurement accuracy very challenging and why we have to defer to this within one percent of accuracy with cameras like the Pro2 because they don't see up to 10 meters and can't be compared that way to the laser scanners like the Pro3 and be okay. I see tags at the top for Pro2 and Pro3, but not the below K36 or 360 can't oh, I see what you mean. Okay. Nick, you're talking about the little blurry area at the top and bottom is the Zenus and the Nadar locations for the Pro2, the Pro3, yes. Those cameras can't see straight up and straight down, so that area just gets blurred out. We've had a bunch of questions of why can't I put a logo there, like some solid color instead of blurring and just blurring ended up being the thing that Matterport went with because it was just the least distracting. If you're looking at a typical ceiling that doesn't have stuff directly above you, then it just blends in. Sometimes there is stuff there and so you can see that getting blurred in with the rest of it. But unfortunately, right now unless you go, there are our platform partners who will be happy to stick a logo up there at the top or bottom, and you can certainly do that but with Matterport, directly not feeding the model through a platform partner, blurring is the only option. That is why those areas are blurred because the cameras can't actually see that area. Let's see here what can be expected in point cloud density, points per centimeter comparing iPhone Pro2 Pro3. What do you guys get for me? I don't know this one. [00:44:10] Abhijit Limaye: Well, I'll start. I mean, for sure, the iPhone a LiDAR is going to be significantly sparse compared to Pro2s and Pro3s. Not all LiDARs are the same. It's definitely a very consumer grade LiDAR that we have on the iPhones. You'll see a significantly less point cloud density on that. Pro2s and Pro3s. The point cloud density itself should be somewhat similar that you'd get in an E57 file. [00:44:44] Amir Frank: Roughly dot size, I know with the iPhone is significantly larger dot size because, look, it's a consumer product not designed for high-end measurement accuracy. It's called LiDAR because technically it is, but should absolutely not be compared to the quality and accuracy and the LiDAR in these higher-end multiple thousands of $, tens of thousands of $sometimes, cameras. There's just not a fair comparison at all. The point cloud density will be higher. Also, good to point out that the LiDAR in the iPhone doesn't have the range. Its field of view is relatively narrow, even more narrow than the lens itself. We use the ultra-wide angle lens with the iPhone, and so the 2D information that we capture from the iPhone is wider than the LiDAR, one reason why we can't just rely on the LiDAR for stitching and then all that. We use it to enhance the accuracy in the measurement of a phone with LiDAR. But the cortex and machine-learning are still used in that conversion process from 2D to 3D. Because it doesn't see everything that the lens does. From the blog you shared, I noticed the scan with the Matterport Pro3 looks sharper than the BLK 360. When you're inside looking at these models, you are looking at a 2D image. Right behind that is the 3D data. If you go out to the dollhouse, you can see the 3D mesh by itself. But if you're inside, gone from scan to scan, I'm forgetting the name of that exactly, what that's called. But you're looking at the 2D image. Yes, the Pro3 is better image quality than the Leica BLK, because Leica BLK was never intended as being a high dynamic range. Very good image quality is designed for better measurement accuracy. So that's why the image is sharper and better with the Pro3, because it is. [00:46:52] Amir Frank: Let's see what else here. Bary's back, good. If it's possible to create an outdoor walk through with an inexpensive 360 camera when will, or is it possible to use the basic 360 capture without infrared active for the Pro3 and Pro2. I see what you're saying. You could get away with it today. If you're using Android, I don t think, maybe Abhijit, maybe you know this. I'm talking about the unjust 360.I know Android has it as Beta, so you could. [00:47:32] Abhijit Limaye: You could. Android, there is a feature for importing 360 images that you collect from a 360 camera, and then you could create a virtual tour without having to go through some of these things. Unfortunately, that's not available on the iOS ecosystem just yet. But yeah, certainly do that. [00:47:52] Amir Frank: But also and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just listening. Right now there's too many new features coming out. Maybe iOS has this convert from 360 to 3D. I think it might have that. You could use the Pro2 in the 360 view or 360 capture mode to capture a 360. [00:48:14] Abhijit Limaye: Oh sure. Yes. [00:48:15] Amir Frank: In it where it needs to go and then tap it, hit "Convert to 3D" and the Matterport app will do that. [00:48:23] Abhijit Limaye: Indeed. [00:48:24] Amir Frank: That's the only way you can actually get the full resolution of the 360 panel anyway. Unless you go again with the platform partner, that'd be a pain, Bary, but you could do that. I don't know if that helps Bary but give that a shot. [00:48:43] Amir Frank: Typical home, each room is within 10-15 feet, trying to figure out accuracy for as-built between Pro2 and Pro3. Typical home? To be honest, I don't know that you're going to see that much of a difference. What are your thoughts, Kris? [00:49:07] Amir Frank: How important is measurement accuracy? It'll be there. [00:49:11] Kris Atkinson: It depends on the scan methodology. Again because it's the right tool for the job. If it's internal and it's those kinds of rooms, the Pro2 fits great. You can do a couple of scans in each room and move around and still effectively do it with the Pro3, if you put one in a room, it's going to capture the majority of the whole room in one scan because it has a further range than what those size rooms are. In terms of accuracy for the as-built, you're going to get more accuracy from a LiDAR solution. It's as simple as that, it's a more accurate technology. Again, it does come down to that question of the right tool for the job. But both should do you a decent job of getting your accurate as-built dimensions for those kinds of spaces. [00:50:02] Amir Frank: I mean like you said, the Pro3 yes. It will be more accurate than the Pro2. The question is, do you need that level of accuracy? Ask, you're really just having that heart-to-heart with yourself. [00:50:19] Amir Frank: Don't get me wrong, I'm as much of a gadget enthusiast as the next person and I want the latest and greatest when it comes to cameras as well as espresso machines. But do I really need it? Will it give me that added value for my use case? Anyway, [00:50:41] Kris Atkinson: I completely agree with that one. I mean the actual capture process now becomes so easy, it's just clicking a button. But what we're actually doing is sometimes we're being less efficient and we're capturing too much deed around certain environments. We're going to the opposite end of the scale in some instances and becoming [inaudible 00:51:01] rather than being efficient and choosing the right tool for the job. [00:51:07] Amir Frank: Yeah. Exactly. As you get higher-end keep in mind typically, I mean, that's not the case with Pro2, Pro3 because it is faster and more accurate. But other cameras do, that's something else to also keep in mind is the amount of time that it takes and so on. Any 57 files when compared to something like the matter pack addressed that real quick Kris. That's on a lot of data in that E57, that one point cloud file is potentially gigabytes worth of information in little dots. You can imagine how many dots are in there. Do you need that for your use case, again, maybe with AEC you do. I was just talking to Matt in another webinar of he you comes from AEC of Alaska remote imaging. Yes, he does. [00:52:05] Kris Atkinson: It's the norm. There is often the conversation about, "Okay, I've got a point Cloud to send you and it's 40 gigabytes and it's how do you transfer that to somebody and download it effectively and do it smoothly." I guess that's the benefit of Matterport being Cloud hosted and we can see the space as quickly as we possibly can without the transfer of those humongous files. But E57 is going to be the most detailed, most accurate output you can get from our Add-ons. [00:52:38] Amir Frank: It'd be interesting to compare actually because when I take those measurements of the Pro3 model, I'm looking at a very pretty heavily decimated file. It's not even as high resolution as the Matterport in terms of its resolution. I'd be interested to compare the measurement accuracy of the same camera, same exact scan with E57 and see that it's a wall so I'm guessing no. You're going to see that difference in more highly detailed window seals and things like that. But anyway, it would be an interesting test. [00:53:20] Amir Frank: If you're building with steel, less forgiving, or other materials, more forgiving with dimensions. Are you talking? [00:53:31] Abhijit Limaye: I think that is an answer to perhaps the previous question. [00:53:37] Kris Atkinson: I think again it's down to the right tool for the job. If you do have an open construction site, for example that is just a steel frame at this stage, it is more likely that you might need that additional accuracy to be able to pick up those elements, those connections in smaller vertical and horizontal beams, as opposed to plasterboard of a whole wall and a whole group. Sometimes it again goes back, right tool for the job and hopefully we supply you a number of options to choose that tool. [00:54:12] Amir Frank: Exactly. Harry says to keep the architects happy. I use Bill K and it's painfully slow and sometimes I use Bill K software just to register 360 and then still have to do with Pro2 to get a walk through trying to determine whether Pro3 will keep architects happy. That is a good question. I would go with the try before you buy approach and have a capture tech scan space for you. Get that test and see if the architect is happy and that has the measurement accuracy and if E57 gives you the, and maybe if you order beam assets and all that stuff. That would be my suggestion and it may depend on the architects. [00:55:00] Kris Atkinson: The accuracy requirements of the job, what is needed. You understand those, then you'll understand the fitful, therefore the camera. [00:55:06] Amir Frank: Yeah. A good point was actually brought up. Chris, you and I spoke with Arab Michael with Arab a while back who also mentioned he will scan with the Matterport camera at the time it was the Pro2, Pro3 wasn't even introduced and then follow up with a farrow to get that incredibly high level of measurement accuracy and that's just goes back to one of the first slides that I had where Matterport digital twins being really good at aiding and collaboration. When you're dealing with a team and especially with building, a lot of people need to be on site, but can't really be on-site to make decisions. You bring them into this digital twin very efficiently. Decisions can be made faster, less time you don't have to wait for that farrow to be done. Then all they do is just tweak some measurements here and there with the farrow measurement accuracy once those decisions have been made. But certainly projects can start weeks ahead of time and it just makes the whole process more efficient. We do see people scanning with both Matterport and high, high-end, even higher-end than the Leica on the same project. [00:56:31] Kris Atkinson: I think that's a great point. We don't see Matterport as competing with those high-end light or laser scanners. There's a reason we are priced at different ends of the scale we're designed for different purposes. We are designed for effective documentation and collaboration to find those issues on a construction site and actually address them as quickly and as effectively as possible. That's not to say, there isn't the need for those high-end units and those accurate measurements at the right time. [00:57:04] Amir Frank: Absolutely. Couldn't agree more and with that we're at time. That was awesome. I really appreciate it. You guys helped a tremendous amount. Like I said, I love this topic and thank you to everyone who attended and asked these great questions. I think it's good. I really hope that this opened your eyes or whatever to the products and the differences between them, and understanding that there there are many options to get and really the most important thing is getting the digital twin to do what you need it to do. There are several options that you can do as far as capturing devices to get there. That's it. Hopefully this was helpful and again, thank you, Kris. Thank you very much Abhijit. [00:57:51] Abhijit Limaye: Thank you. That's great. [00:57:56] Amir Frank: I really liked that, we'll do this again when the profile comes out. Thanks again and hope you all have a very good rest of your day and good evening to anyone in Glasgow. Take care everybody. ---  WGAN-TV Podcast Play List: Pro3 | WGAN Forum Playlist: Pro3  WGAN Forum Discussion: WGAN Cheat Sheet: Cost Worksheet for Matterport Pro3 Camera  Join the WGAN List | Join WGAN Forum  Matterport Pro3 Camera | Matterport Pro3 Camera Acceleration Kit |
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