BLK360 owners, I may buy it but I have a few questions15386
 WGAN FanClub Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It seems I have a chance to get a second hand Blk360 with a mission kit and even an Ipad Pro. The price is so good that I am considering buying it. It is a bit risky as it is an international sale but it comes with one year extended warranty and the camera is claimed to have very low use(under 50 hours). The year of the camera manufacturing is 2018. I will confirm with a seller if the warranty is going to be honored by Leica in Australia considering the camera has been sold initially outside of Australia. However I have some question to the BLK360 owners that are related to Matterport and few of using a Blk360 outside of matterport system. 1)As I understand to use a Blk360 with Matterport you need a tripod(either Leica or a normal tripod with their head adapter) & batteries(with a charger). So basically no additional software licenses are required for this Matterport-BLK360 tandem. Is it correct? 2)Have you purchase your BLK360 camera internationally and do paid or warranty repairs when they are needed? Do Leica honor their warranty no matter where their camera has been purchased initially? 3) using it for 3d scanning without Matterport: what the software they offer do, how much a license cost(one time fee or annually) and how much work with your Blk360 you are doing without using Matterport? 4)Since the camera I am considering has been manufactured in 2018, how it is different from those made in 2020-2021? Have the Leica changed anything in their BLKK36 cameras over three years of them being offered? If not, were the units produced at the beginning of the BLK360 lifecycle better or worse in their quality? |
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 WGAN StandardMember Birmingham, Alabama |
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| Wingman 1. You can use the same tripod as the Matterport (we use the Manfrotto 190). You do need their head to mount the camera to the tripod. Depending on how you scan, black and white or color, and what density you scan at, the number of scans per battery can be limited, about 100 in color and closer to 200 in black and white. We have 4 batteries. We are very close to purchasing a second scanner from Leica. A really nice thing is you can use multiple IPADs, as the scans need to be downloaded from the scanner. and you scan actually scans different parts of a property and put them together to make a whole. The distance that you will be able to scan is not quite what Leica would let you believe to get the coverage needed so their is sufficient points in the point cloud. Plus scan times are higher that Matterport, takes longer. 2. Can not answer this question as we purchased ours in the US through Leica. 3. Leica offers the Field 360 software for scanning, but to render you have to have Register 360 and several other pieces for off loading from the scanner, etc. We use it all the time. We have already done much more than enough to pay for more than one scanner. We have not used the scanner with the Matterport Capture app. I will alert you that scanning with the Leica software is a different beast, nothing is automatic and linking scans can become tedious, but the product is GREAT. Can not answer question 4. Hope this helps. We just finished a 126k sf property this weekend. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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| Thank you for clarifications. As far as I researched weeks ago a scan can take 3-5 minutes depending on a density chosen. I did not know though it can do black & white. I also saw 30 scans number per one battery, 100-200 looks even better. From my conversation today with an Australian Leica distributor for BLK360s. They don't repair it under warranty if it has not been purchased trough them but they have mentioned that it does not mean Leica won't do it.. I just have to ship it directly to Leica. They have also offered me to check a serial number which I am going to do. I have asked them if there is any difference between a current batch and 2018. The difference is 2018 cameras have been supplied with 64GB of memory and the current batch comes with 32GB. Leica explains it as more stable operation but their distributor says they cannot see any difference and their 2018 batch works as good as a current one. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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| I want to show one of the examples that inspires me to make this purchase 140 000 sqf all outdoor and all done with a BLK360 only. I have measured a distance between a couple of scans and they seem to be placed more than 7 meters apart. I do a lot of big indoor spaces or big outdoor spaces only these days and it is such a big problem. Adding a BLK360 would let me do it faster, I can do it any time of a day and I can simply charge more for using a blk360. |
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 Matterport Camera Repair Service Gainesville, Florida |
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| I have seen some really good pricing on BLK and other scanners from overseas sellers (particularly Indonesia) but I am skeptical and haven’t pursued any. I’ll be curious as to how it works out for you should you move forward with the purchase...please update if you do. | ||
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| The nice thing is you can see the cloud points as you scan and if the density is not what it should be you can add more between points. We have done 15 to 20 scans so far, and the learning curve is steep. There really and truly is not an automatic positioning, while it part of the software, most scans are not positioned correctly, either in another area or 180 degrees wrong. The scan distance in general is about 25-30 ft (your 7 meters) for good results. The black and white scan medium density is about 2 minutes per scan. |
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Expertise private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Here's my question. Why would someone pay big bucks for me to scan rows and rows of tractors? Wouldn't a video be more appropriate/useful and enjoyable to view? | ||
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| In a video the media controls movement and what is viewed. If someone wants to control the movement in and around the vehicles then a 3D 360 camera. | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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Quote:Originally Posted by MatterFix Mine is in Indonesia, there is also one in Singapore but its seller has not replied to me yet. It is risky to buy unseen but at least I can check its serial number once I get it. Plus the seller takes responsibility for it while the camera is in transit. Also a Leica australian distributor has offered me a used one in good condition for 60% more that I would pay for the indonesian one but almost 40% less than a brand new one. At first I said "no" but after talking with a finance guy today I think it would be my plan B to get a BLK360. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Expertise it could be to show a huge range of machinery or a big stock of different models. A video would be simpler to create but I do not think a good one will be much cheaper plus as @rko1 has mentioned already a tour gives their client of freedom of movement through their yard and freedom of looking at what is more important to their client. |
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aerialpixels private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey Wingman I am from Singapore and I have been sourcing for 2nd hand BLK for sometime in Singapore and hard to find any. if the Sinpgore seller you mentioned rhymes with Gecko, then I am afraid they are not contactable. Tried contacting them many times already. Quote: Originally Posted by Wingman |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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Quote:Originally Posted by aerialpixels No, they have a different name. What does a Blk360 cost in Singapore brand new? I have just found one shop selling a brand new with a mission kit for $7999. It can be a scam but it is an online shop that offers other brand new scanners. They are in Singapore. Have a look at https://califfsurveying.com/product-category/laser-scanners That one in Singapore I have enquired about seems to be the same unit as the one in Indonesia as their description matches. |
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| BE VERY CAREFUL, PRICE WAY TO LOW...I HAVE BEEN SCAMMED ON CANON PRODUCTS FROM OVERSEAS.. | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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| Thanks, I will be. I am not really going to chaise that unbelievable offer of a brand new kit for less than $8000. I can believe in a used one selling at least 60% less of a cost of a new one. I would sell my old but still working fine laser cutters for 50% of their brand new cost. I have also just helped a fellow I know to sell a laser for tattoo removal. They have paid over $75 000 for it, barely used it and now are happy to sell it for $30K to the buyer who I have helped them to find through an online ad. |
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aerialpixels private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey Wingman I just checked out the website. A few red flags for me. 1) in their about page = they talked about serving north America customers. yet they are in Singapore? 2) their management photos - i don't know man, they just feel too generic. rebecca tan for sure don't look asian. well, she could have caucasian mixed parentage...hahaha 3) cant find any business registration info on them, just a cursory check nothing detailed. 4) a surveying company will usually not be located at the address they stated. that's the CBD. for bankers, lawyers, tech startups, etc. I cant say they are a scam, but it does raise suspicion. A brand new blk360 from leica Singapore, depending on the package, usually starts around 20+k SGD |
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| Better safe than sorry. We work too hard for what we make, plus what we invest to do the work we do. Please, please be very careful. Want all of you to be successful and to find great pricing, but wishful thinking sometimes can bite us all. One last thought, if there truly were prices this good then they should not have stock, they should be sold out. We had to wait an extra week for ours as they were sold out at regular retail price. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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| I have had a chat with the Australian Leica distributor today again. I wanted to thank him for offering to check a serial # & enquiry about what's included with their second hand BLK360. Unfortunately it has been sold today morning but it would be coming with a tripod, charger and a few batteries. No software & no caring case. They have sold it for $20 000 AUD. He has also had a look at that seller listing with a brand new kit for $7999 We have come to a conclusion that it is either a scam(there is a company in USA with the same name and they offer LiDar services) or their cameras are simply not brand new and it is just somehow their images for every product they sell got listed with that small badge that they are brand new cameras. I have left my details with him in case they are going to have another second hand BLK360 available anytime soon. BTW, my seller has not sent me a serial # yet and they have usually replied with 24 hours to all my previous emails. Again can be a scam or they do not have it with them and are now asking whoever owns and has it to provide it. |
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 TosoliniProductions Bellevue, Washington |
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| @wingman As @aerialpixels hinted, if you do a Google reverse image search of the customer service manager of https://califfsurveying.com/about-us you end up finding that she must be a twin sister of a celebrity :-) Another red flag. | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Tosolini it is actually worse. If you google for their name you will find a GMB of what I have thought as a company in USA just with the same name. Their address is in USA. However if you click on the website for this GMB you will end up on the same Singapore website. If it is no a scam I do not know what else it could be.. If it looks like a scam, smells like a scam.. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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| Woo hoo, I am getting a demo unit from an Australian Leica distributor. Slightly more than I have been expecting to invest but doable. BTW, there is a BLK360 kit listed on eBay from Indonesia for $5500 AUD It is for sure a scam as they have even stolen pictures from websites in different countries. I reported it to eBay 3 days ago. They do not seem they care as it is still listed. |
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| Are you going to use the Capture app or the Leica Field 360. We have yet to use the Capture app with our BLK, but we have done enough work in 3 months to much more than pay for the scanner and all of the accessories including the Register software. But the learning curve is huge, basically learning to read the scan and setting the links correctly. Helps to use a large monitor, as we use 42" monitors. Good luck as you proceed down this new path. | ||
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aerialpixels private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @rko1 Heartening to hear that you have already gotten enough work to pay for the BLK and etc. Thats the scary part, to invest in such expensive hardware. I notice you seem to say you don't use the Capture app for the BLK. So your use case for the BLK is not for matterport? Can you share how else you use the BLK? I am keen to create digital twins of buildings,I know and use photogrammetry, but wonder if the BLK adds any real benefit (since buildings tend to need drones anyway to photograph them at heights). Some initial research leads me to think 3d point cloud scans from Laser scanners to 3dmesh may not be significantly better than photogrammetry in terms of capturing fine detail like decorative carvings on the building facade etc. Any inputs greatly appreciated! |
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| With the Leica software and scanner you can select 3 different scan densities, plus color or B&W. But there is so much, you actually download the scans on your system and manipulate the scans, the positions, and the links. You can use multiple IPADS for a project. And as I said you have the files on YOUR system. The companies are actually asking for the BLK to be used with the Leica software. You can create e57 files and recap files. The point cloud quality is actually better. There are not that many individuals that own the BLK in the US, most are in Construction Companies, Engineering Companies and Architectural firms. I was told by the Leica rep that she only knew of 2 individuals between NC and Texas that have a BLK, and we are one of them. More BLK work would be available if more people had them. I will also say the learning curve is huge. This is not automatic, scan and the location and position may or may not be where it needs to be, plus links may be or may not between the correct 2 scans. But we have worked hard and have it down pretty well. The companies want a file they can use for as builts.(e57/rcp) We have done several projects that require both Matterport and BLK. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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Quote:Originally Posted by rko1 it is not coming with any Autodesk software licenses(not that I have even asked the distributor for them to be included). So at first it is going to be used with Matterport only. However in a long run I'd love to offer a full service with this scanner so I will be trying to learn using it outside of Matterport system. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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Quote:Originally Posted by aerialpixels It turns out there are services that can convert 3D and visual data from LiDar scanners into a virtual tour. I have just registered on laser scanning forum and look at what I have found there as a service offering 3D virtual tours from laser data and pano images with Benaco I do not think photogrammetry will ever compete with LiDAR scanning. It is ok for small object and spaces but I do not think it is ever going to be a threat for big ones. |
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WGAN Standard Member Birmingham, Alabama |
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| The Field 360 app is free to scan. The Register 360 app is about $1,200 US. Almost everything with Leica has an associated charge, and it is not cheap, help video included. It is an investment but in our case well worth it. We are very close to buying a second system so that we can cut our project time down substantially. That is for the larger projects which we can see coming, based on what we have done, and what there appears to be on the horizon. | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
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| I got it yesterday. I am testing it now and I'd love to ask some extra questions. However I will watch some the videos first posted in the following thread - Leica BLK360 + Matterport Questions from a WGAN-TV Viewer BTW, I have found cheap batteries for the BLK360. $125 AUD on ebay for two batteries and a charger. Just search by battery product # GEB212 As for the field 360 app it is free but it needs a login. You can open an account but to activate it you need to have an entitlement ID. It only comes with Register 360 which is not free.. about $1930 AUD per year. I have got a trial ID for 15 days from the distributor however so I will try using my BLK360 outside of Matterport system when I can. And as a sneak peek I have tree big tours that are going into processing soon. Two are slightly less than 700 scans and one is over 1200 scans. All have been done with a Matterport Pro2. I hope they won't come as a screw up and process successfully. I will share them in a separate thread. |
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 MatterTagExport-Import Service Lower Hutt, New Zealand |
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| I've been offline for a while, SO glad you didn't go with the first one you mentioned as I got scammed out of $16k a few years back from false seller. If anyone wants a BLK at a reasonable price, PM me.... | ||
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ThinkLab private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Wingman I used a BLK on two very big shoots. Worklflow : 1 / 10 - Takes forever to do one scan 3 - 4 min depending on quality Overheating : 5 / 10 - If you work in hot environment , camera will start overheating in the first 20 min of use. Solution Cooler box with cold beer or Ice to dunk it in and cool it off Outputs 5 /. 10 : depends if you are just shooting to use in Matterport ( can get away with lower setting and 2 - 3 min per scan point ) , If you need to give you client useful accurate data then will take longer and your Matterport image quality won't be that good. Mastering CAD or cleaning up the scanned data , to give your clients useful outputs and not just a virtual tour. Pros : You can cover larger areas with one scan, fills in well. Distance between scans upto 20 meters , Give your clients 1000x more accurate measurements than the 1 inch variances you get on Matterport, BLK also more reliable than Matterport. Leica is not doing any upgrades on the BLK for another while so its safe to buy it, the tech is so advanced that when an upgrade will come , you will only need to upgraded firmware. Conclusion : expensive doorstap = ROI = New products coming to Market = outdated = no data security + self hosting. SAMPLE |
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