Transcript>WGAN-TV How RKO Photography Grew to 7 Matterports/1 Leica BLK36015219
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Episode 110-WGAN-TV How RKO Photography Grew to 7 Matterport Cameras + 1 Leica BLK360 with greater Birmingham, Alabama-based RKO Photography President Roger Owens (@rko1) and Vice President Kay Owens. | Thursday, 8 July 2021 Birmingha, Alabama-based RKO Photography President Roger Owens with a Leica BLK360 (left) and Matterport Pro2 3D Camera. Transcript: WGAN-TV Live at 5: Matterport Customer Journey: How RKO Photography Grew to 7 Matterport Cameras and 1 Leica BLK360 (Spoiler Alert: Commercial Spaces) Hi All, Transcript below ... Are you a Matterport Service Provider that wants to succeed faster? Be inspired by Birmingham, Alabama-based RKO Photography President Roger Owens - and Vice President Kay Owens – whom are my guests on WGAN-TV Live at 5 on Thursday, July 8, 2021:  WGAN-TV Live at 5: Matterport Customer Journey: How RKO Photography Grew to 7 Matterport Cameras and 1 Leica BLK360 (Spoiler Alert: Commercial Spaces) | Episode: 110Among the questions that I asked Roger and Kay: 1. How did you grow from one Matterport Pro 3D Camera to seven? 2. When and why did you buy a Leica BLK360 (and why are you considering buying a second BLK360)? 3. When and how did you get started with your first Matterport camera? 4. Tell us about RKO Photography services? 5. How has the services offered by RKO Photography changed over time (and why)? 6. Whom are RKO Photography clients? (Spoiler Alert: Commercial Spaces) 7. What marketing strategies/tactics have worked well for you? 8. What marketing strategies/tactics have not worked well for you? 9. What tips do you have for Matterport Service Providers to succeed faster? 10. What advice do you have for real estate photographers that are considering buying a Matterport Pro2? 11. You own RKO Photography with your wife, Kay. Tips for family business owners? Best, Dan RKO Photography Links RKO Photography (Website) RKO Photography (Facebook) Roger Owens (LinkedIn) Roger D Owens Twitter RKO Photography (Pinterest)-- Transcript (video above) - Hi all. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Thursday, July 8th, 2021. And you're watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. We have an awesome show for you today. How RKO Photography Grew to Seven Matterport Pro Cameras and One Leica BLK360 camera. And here to talk to us about that, the two Founders, Roger Owens and his wife, Kay Owens. Hey Roger, hey Kay. Good to see you. - Hi. - [Both] Hi, Dan. - Roger is the President. Kay is the Vice President of RKO Photography. They're based in Greater Birmingham, Alabama, and have seven Matterport cameras. Wow! How did that happen, Roger? - Well, we actually grew as far as, not only in need, but we grew team-wise, we added people. And we wanted to make sure that as people went out, if they needed one, they had their own to use. So there's five of us basically, and each one of us has one. Plus we have a couple of spares in case we have a problem. - Awesome. So let's talk a little bit about today and then we'll kind of go back in time. I know this is going to be an awesome show for Matterport Service Providers, in particular that want to succeed faster. And real estate photographers, in general. Help us understand RKO Photography today. Kinds of shoots that you do. Kinds of services that you offer. - We offer basically everything that you can do for a house. We do obviously photography, which we started doing. We do videos, we do drone videos. We do Matterport; just about anything they would need. And the reason for that is so that they don't call somebody else because once they call somebody else, they may not call you again. So we want to make sure that we not only offer it, but offer a good price. - So I'm hearing real estate photography, but looking at your website, www.RKO.Photography ... I see a lot of other services that are unrelated to real estate photography. Do you still offer those services? - For the most part, yes. - So could you give us maybe the top services outside of real estate photography that you're offering? - We do Matterport. We do a lot of Matterport and we do a lot of what we call teasers, which are short videos, which I'm sure you're familiar with showing the highlights of a property. And we use hand-held video cameras plus drone video for the exteriors. And those are the two most popular things that we actually do. - Is the drone video and the short videos typically of residential real estate? - Absolutely. Yes, sir. - Kay. - We have grown into a lot of commercial property. - Tell me more about that. - We actually got into it through WGAN, for the most part. It's been because of the wonderful job that you do and attracting people that we were able to hook up with a couple of clients that started using us. And we went from doing small locations, fast food restaurants, to properties that were in the hundreds of thousands of square feet each, including banks and big-box stores, and just all kinds of stuff. And it's been very lucrative. - Without necessarily mentioning specific clients, could you talk a little bit more about categories of clients and the kind of verticals that you're working on in the commercial space? - Right. As I said, we do a lot of different fast food restaurants; probably as many as four or five different ones, and we'll get orders for maybe five to 10 of those at a time in a particular area. We do ladies clothing stores. We do, as I said, big-box stores. We do apartment complexes. We've done a couple of large banks, 100,000+ SQ FT banks, 10-12 stores in different states, and just random, different other types of individual businesses. - You mentioned other states, but I introduced you as servicing the Greater Birmingham area. What is the coverage area for RKO Photography? - We just got back from Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Arkansas, Missouri, doing... - Tennessee. - Tennessee is just above us, and we go to Louisiana. We have an office now in Tulsa to help us handle some of those states that are more difficult for us to get to and offer services quicker. - And you have a Leica BLK360. What do you use that for? - We use it for the larger properties and for customers who require a Leica instead of a Matterport. That was an opportunity that was presented to us and we decided to go ahead and buy a camera before we actually had a job and it turned out to be wonderful. It has been a really big boom because I think the Leica is coming on strong. And you're going to see it used a lot more in the next year or two. - And are you using the Leica BLK360 paired with the Matterport Capture app? Or are you doing Leica BLK360 with its own set of scanning? - Kay will address that. - I use the FIELD 360 app that comes with the Leica because the clients that we have used so far need a different file format than what Matterport produces. So if they need their own set of plans and drawings, they need a different file structure in order to bring that into a drawing or CAD program. - So, you're capable of using the BLK360 paired with the Matterport Capture app, but at this point you're presently really, it's a standalone scanning to capture CAD files for clients. - That's correct. We've done about 15 projects so far. - Some of those projects, now that client has requested a Matterport as well as the BLK360 file. I'm not sure exactly how they're utilizing those, but we provide both for the same property. - Interesting. So does that mean you're scanning it twice, once with Matterport - with a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera and then once with the Leica BLK360? - Yes. - That's correct. - Okay. So Leica BLK360 Scanner/Camera, I want to say around $19,000 plus software plus, plus, how is that you ended up buying one of those without having a project, a client lined up? - Well, it's like anything else. We just saw an opportunity and we thought that it was going to be something that was going to happen. And it was basically a flyer more than anything else. And it worked out very well and it's going to continue to work well for us. - Later in the show, I'd like to ask you about husband and wife running a business together. But I just imagine there was some discussion, both professionally and personally about buying $19,000 or more without actually having a client. Kay, you're smiling. Why is that? You were smiling at the time, I suspect. - That's exactly right. Roger has always had intuition about business and he is the business operator in our business and our marriage because he just has that knowledge and know-how. It's like you said, you and your wife worked well together because you had expertise and she had expertise, and that's the same way with us. And in the beginning years ago, we didn't always see eye-to-eye, but I have learned through the years that if he feels strongly about something, I go with him because he's been right every time. - Congratulations. And I think even for prepping for this show, I think what I heard from Roger was that you're actually thinking about buying yet a second BLK360. Is that something that might happen? - We actually looked at one another about the same time and kind of at the same time said, "We need to get a second camera, potentially." We have done a pilot program for a big-box retailer. And if this thing happens, then they want to segment the scans. In other words, they want to take different parts of the store because it's so big and group them individually. And if we had two scanners, we obviously would get done a lot quicker. So, they would more than pay for themselves with the potential that's upcoming. - So that's interesting. Because if you're using a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera, you can't use two cameras on the same project, if you want to deliver it within one model. But it sounds like with the BLK360, like a BLK360, you can actually do that. Is that what I'm hearing? - That is correct. You can actually create one model for multiple scans. - So, you could be on site using the BLK360 with multiple cameras. Perhaps the budget warranted it because you do have five team members at RKO Photography. - That's correct. - So, let's go back in time a little bit. When did you first hear about Matterport? - March of 2016. - And why is it that you remember that month? - Because we bought a Matterport Pro1 3D Camera and one of the first scans that Kay actually did for a lady, a Realtor here in town, we uploaded on the internet because we advertise what we do for our Realtor clients. We put it on Facebook, other places. And within three weeks, she sold a $400,000 house to a lady in Australia, sight unseen, just looking at the Matterport scan. When that happened, I knew that this was going to be bigger than we ever envisioned. And that was within three weeks of buying the camera. - It wasn't what you were doing for a living, I presume. At that time you were probably doing more event photography, wedding photography. - We were actually doing real estate, just houses, doing some small videos and photography. - So, and back when you bought the camera, I want to say it was $4,500, and it was a Matterport Pro1 versus a Matterport Pro2. It costs more than a Matterport Pro2 3D Camera today. Did you have any trepidation at the time where you thinking, "Will this actually...?" Kay, I see you smiling again. It sounds like you were the rational part of the business here. Do you remember what you said to Roger before he wrote the check or bought it? - I'm not sure of the exact words, but. - Those words weren't that strong. It was when I bought the next two the next month and we had three of them! So, she was a little worried about it at that time. Let's say that. - Kay, were you a little bit worried about it at the time? - There was a tid of skepticism. Yes, I will admit. - So somehow, some way, Roger, you heard about Matterport. You decided to buy a Matterport Pro1 3D Camera, the first house sells, sight unseen, someone out of town, out of country. I imagine, was that an aha moment for you and even for your real estate client? - Yes. For it to sell: no, but for it to sell out of country, with the lady looking at the model, the space from Australia, yes, it was. And it just made everybody feel really good and really pleased to have bought the first one. - So why did you go buy two more Matterport Pro1 Cameras? You didn't have any more business; I imagine, at that point. - Well, we were building it, but Kay decided she needed one. - Is that true, Kay? Or is that how Roger remembers things in hindsight? - It's probably close to true. Because truthfully, he bought this camera and said, "Here, this is yours and you learn how to use it." Wait, what? So it was mine, but he needed one. So, it was really his, but he wanted me to do the learning curve. And so, we did both need one: that was 2016. So this last year, he's learned how to use it. - Is that true, Roger? - Absolutely. - So, you buy two more, so you spend at least $9,000, presumably at that time, plus probably tripods and cases and iPads. And so, really it's like perhaps buying a goldfish or something. The fish is not that expensive, it's the tank, and the gravel, and the air pump, and everything else. - That's correct. - So quite a bit of investment that you made without necessarily having business lined up. I could understand that maybe there was a Matterport camera for you, and a Matterport Camera for Kay, who is the third camera for? - We actually had a spare at that time until we had another team member that was going to come on shortly anyway. So, we needed three. - So, is that a kind of best practice/standard practice for you? It's just the way you operate? You want to have a spare camera just in case something is... - Yeah. We have a spare of everything. When we buy stuff, we buy spares for everything. - When we go out of town, there's always a spare, everything in the car. - Okay. That's cool. And then what happened because you've gotten to seven? So, how did you get to seven? - Well, the Matterport Pro2 Cameras came out right after we bought the first three. And I don't know if you remember, but Matterport had a trade-in program. They gave you $400 off on each Pro2 if you swapped in your Pro1. So we swapped for three Pro2s. We got rid of all of them. And then as we added team members, we needed more cameras. And then obviously, Matterport runs specials from time to time. They dropped them down under $3,000 and we bought some. And so, we now have two spares and we have five [in use]. And as I said, we have one sitting out in Tulsa, Oklahoma right now with one of our team members and he handles territory out there. - So, is it five plus Tulsa? Or is it actually five in the Greater Birmingham area plus Tulsa? - Six in the Birmingham area and one in Tulsa. - So there's seven. So there's actually seven of you and there's seven. - I'm sorry. There's five of us. We have three team members and Kay and I, we have one person of the five, excuse me, is in Tulsa. - Got it. Okay. Quite an investment in technology. How did you go about developing business? - We believe, and I think over the years, you and I have chatted more than just a few times, but we believe in relationships. To be honest, I don't like to text, I don't like to email. I like to talk to people on the phone. I like to talk to people face-to-face. I just think that your personality comes through. I think that your intensity comes through, your drive comes through, and you can tell more about people that way. And that's, to me, the only way you can build a true relationship. And that's what we started doing. What we did is we built a base of a bunch of different people and clients. And then we started adding different services so that if we went out, we could handle all the different things. And we were doing hundreds of houses a month of properties. We've done as many as 25 in one day. And what we started doing was as we were adding the services we were scaling back on the number of properties. And today, we do 100 to 150 houses a month. And last month we did 49 commercial properties. And this month already, we have 24 either done or scheduled. - That's awesome. Congratulations. - So it was just a process. - Let's go to Hawaii. - So, you're sending us the tickets, right? - I think I misunderstood. I thought you were the one who was having a really good month ;-) So, if you had 25 houses in one day, I could imagine operationally, that that was almost killing you. - It was. Because the biggest thing is one of the things that we've learned is you provide what they need. The one thing that we provided that nobody else had ever done is if we shot at your house today, you had your pictures tonight. So I would be going to bed at three and four in the morning, editing pictures all night. And it was about to kill me, really. So we started backing off on that. We still provide the same service, but we're able to do it with fewer houses. - So when you go on site, you're providing more services for that particular property. So maybe when you started, it might've been photos and Matterport; photos, drone and Matterport. And today maybe it's single property websites being added and videos been added and some other services. - Yes, sir. - I could imagine that residential real estate is a challenging space. You're dealing with people who own their own business, self-employed, every penny counts. I don't know if that's any different for commercial, but tell me about the transition because it sounds like you've made a good leap to move towards commercial real estate. - I was talking to, strange you should ask, I was talking to one of our clients, commercial clients yesterday, and they were telling me about bringing on new photographers into their space. And without exception, they all said, "We want to do commercial real estate. We do not want to do residential anymore because there's so much to it. And there's so many headaches and things that go along with it." Whereas in commercial, it's not that you don't have problems, that you'll get a call and you'll get an address. You go out and shoot the property. You send them an invoice and that's it in a lot of cases. So, in residential, it's not always that way. There's always a problem. You have to get to the site and then the house is not ready -- - That never happens, Roger! ;-) - You know what I'm talking about. So the commercial thing is just so much, and obviously, it's more lucrative because the equipment you use just like using the BLK360 costs more, so people expect to pay more. So, that's the good side of it. - Kay, have you ever showed up on a job and the house wasn't ready? That's not true what Roger said, that never happens to you. ;-) - They schedule the housekeepers that day. They scheduled the lawn crew that day. The air conditioner went out and they scheduled the HVAC people or it's hot because the HVAC is out. There's always a problem. - We went into a house the other day, it was 90 degrees. - 90. Wow! So if you had your choice, you'd much rather be doing a commercial space than residential. - Without Exception! Without exception! We have, just like anything else, there's great Realtors and there's good Realtors. And we do have some really great Realtors here and we do appreciate the business they give us and we work hard for what we do, and we've been successful at it. We have stayed very busy and not having a franchise, one of these franchises that are out there, that they actually do the editing for you and they do the videos for you. You do the easy stuff and send it to them and they generate the walk-throughs. But we have done very well and we do appreciate everything that everybody has helped us with. - So operationally, you're doing everything in-house, whether it's photo image editing, video editing, aerial video editing. Everything is in-house that you deliver? - Yes. - So just kind of going back to commercial space. I guess part of what I'm hearing is if you had a chance to do a 100,000 SQ FT big-box store versus four 25,000 SQ FT houses, I don't even know if you could do that, perhaps in Birmingham. - We did a 24,000 SQ FT house. We did a 24,000 SQ FT here. - SQ FT house? Is that your house? - No. - You need a place to put all those Matterport cameras! - Well, I probably don't want one that big. That means we have to keep it up and have to fill it up. So no, but yes, we did. - You were talking about, I'm trying to do the math here, just to say 40, 2,500 SQ FT houses, or one, 100,000 SQ FT big-box store, it sounds like in a heartbeat, you would say, "let's do the 100,000 SQ FT store." The client understands at a higher level. I imagine just the conversation is different for a real estate agent that's got a $250,000 house for sale versus a commercial space where they need the CAD, they need the as-built of the big-box for whatever they're doing. And you're a tiny little piece of the cost of that project that they're working on. - Yes, absolutely. And it's different. And so, it's a different world and it's one that we embrace and we plan on taking whatever opportunity we can with it. - Why do you describe commercial space as a different world from residential space? - Well, once again, you get an order from someone, they notify them that you're going to be there. You show up, "We're here to do this." "Okay, go ahead." You do whatever job you need to do there. And you leave, and it's: send an invoice. - And they don't tell you how to do your job. When you go to a residential property, the homeowner, the Realtor, everyone wants to tell you how to-- - Sometimes, sometimes. - I bet you love shooting weddings ;-) - We used to do weddings. - Long time, long time before real estate. - But then you have the bride and the groom, and the mother-in-law. - Mother-in-law, don't forget the Mother-in-law. ;-) - Have different directions. But I digress. So, how did you make the transition? How did those first commercial spaces happen for you? - We actually, I want to say that we contacted, I know we did, we contacted from a blurb that you had on one of your emails that you sent out with contact information for one of these people. And we called them, and we got the job. It was actually in Memphis. - Awesome. Is this a client you can talk about or not? - Yeah. Yeah. It's IFTI/PROVision Solutions - Okay. So, IFTI/PROVision Solutions which does a lot of Matterport 3D tours and BLK360 tours. - That is correct. - How did that one client, IFTI/PROVision Solutions, become a lot of business for you? - Yes. And they're very good at what they do, then they do things the right way, seriously. - So, you did your first project with IFTI/PROVision Solutions, then they invited you to do more. I'm imagining that you got to do a variety of different kinds of spaces. And different use cases of the scans that you were doing. - Yes. And they were Matterport to begin with, obviously, then, because the BLK360: even though it's been around for years, really has just started to come into its own, I think. - So in terms of use cases, whether it's IFTI/PROVision Solutions or other commercial spaces, let me see if I can identify some uses, and then tell me if I'm missing some. Doing scans for as-built so that an architect could renovate the space and begin the design process with a CAD file. Construction. I'm sorry, forgive me, Roger. You were saying? - We've done more than just a few of those. - As-builts, construction documentation maybe weekly or monthly, construction documentation. So it's the same space over time so that perhaps the general contractor, the architect, the subcontractors can see the progress from perhaps a BIM model or from week-to-week-to-week or month-to-month. - And if they have a problem, then they have all these things they can go back to and try to identify those before they close areas up, if they're open, just general stuff like that. - Which, as I understand it, construction waste can be as high as 15%, if not more. So if you can catch those problems early through the construction documentation that's what's happening there. Finished space. Commercial spaces turned over to a client. It's now pristine in a beautiful condition. And it's now being used for marketing purposes. - Yes. We have done hospitals. We have done... - We did a floor of a hospital for a construction company. And they used that model. We've been into every room, into every nook and cranny. And they use that model for their subcontractors and say, "This is the way this room is supposed to be. And this is the room you will build it out the way you will build it out." So, that's one way that they use that. And that was with the Matterport. - With Matterport. And have there been other use cases that you're aware of? I could imagine you could go scan a space and actually not know what the intended use was. But where you did know. - A lot of them are remodels. They're going to remodel spaces. National chains are right now in the middle of, as we understand, that they have cash and they're going to start remodeling a lot of their older locations. And that's for every kind of story you can imagine. That's why there's so much business out there now because there's a lot of remodeling about to happen, has been happening and is going to really get big next year. - So if we take particular verticals, such as a restaurant chain across the country and the headquarters might be in one city, obviously all those franchise locations are located across the country, if not yet in other countries. And as I understand it, a refresh may be done every three years. - That is correct. - So, if you are a restaurant chain, and let's say just for the sake of simplicity, you have 6,000 locations, you may be doing a refresh of 2,000 of those stores every year. So that's 2,000 this year, 2,000 next year, 2,000 the following year, boom, we're back to the beginning of doing refreshes. So I think what I'm hearing is you're picking up a lot of refreshes of whether it's restaurant or different categories, where the corporate office needs to get the as-built scan. - That's true. Yes, exactly. We do. And then there's several different vertical markets, a big-box retailer, for example, that's the plan, except one of them is going to be in more than just three years. It's going to be the word I heard was seven years, but there's going to be-- - So, depending on the store. So maybe coffee shops might be every three years. A big-box might be every seven years. But there's some refresh schedule. And I think part of what I'm hearing is you did some work for clients that might've been in your geographic area, but they liked you so much that they said, "would you travel to do either Matterport or BLK360 scans or both" that took you on the road? Is that? -- - That is exactly right. I had a conversation yesterday, as a matter-of-fact, with one of them and they were asking if we could go to Denver and do some work. - They like you enough to say, "We'd rather travel you than hire somebody local if you're willing to do the travel." - It is specifically centered around the BLK360. And there's just, people don't understand that the BLK360, there's only, and I'm going to say a handful, but it's more than that. But there's a very low number of people that own a BLK360 that are not construction people or architects or engineers the firms have them. We are one of the few individuals that actually owns a BLK360. I was told by Leica when we purchased our BLK360, they only knew of two of us between North Carolina and Texas that had them. So, they'd rather deal with us than have to hire an engineering firm, which is going to cost them a lot more money and they have their own in-house engineering team that they're already paying. So why not save money and do it their way? I mean, do it so that they can actually generate the product for the customer. - Yeah. So here's a tip. I'll put it out there. I'd say don't hold me to account, but for our viewers, listening to Roger and Kay, talk about the use cases and the use of a BLK360, I would say, because there aren't a lot of people that actually own -- or let's call it, a Matterport Service Provider that don't own a Leica BLK360 -- then this actually might be a good thing to go buy. And I would suggest probably calling IFTI/PROVision Solutions first and saying, "Hey, we have a BLK360. We are located in this market." Or inversely, maybe even call IFTI/PROVision Solutions, just go to the We Get Around Network Forum, www.WGANForum.com you'll see IFTI/PROVision is one of our sponsors at the top there, and just have a conversation with them and say, "Hey, I'm just about the go write the check for BLK360. Just want to see if we can come through some deal on some business in order to justify the purchase." And I think what I'm hearing is that there is probably at the moment more demand for BLK360 work for large big-boxes, than there are actually Service Providers that have this camera. - That's true. A lot of people rent them. You can rent one, but the price is, for renting a BLK360 is not cheap. And over time, you're going to be able to pay for it with big-box stores pretty quickly. - So, this is a good example that here you have a potential client considering having you drive -- is that a drive or a flight? - We drive. We have to carry so much equipment, we drive. - Yeah. Plus you have those two spares. ;-) - And we unload every night and load. - Yes. Yeah. You're not leaving it in your car. So I think that's probably a really good tip that there's a demand and so much so that you're actually driving quite a distance in order to cover perhaps a market where they haven't been able to find a BLK360 Service Provider. Since you mentioned IFTI/PROVision Solutions, you ended up doing quite a bit of business for them, which meant that you now had a lot of experience in different verticals. And use cases. Did that help you then get the next client because you now had that experience? - We actually, at the same time, picked up ADAptive, but it wasn't because of ADAptive Property Solutions, but that was more because they needed people in this area and we got hooked up with them and they found out we travel. The one thing that's missing in this country is there's some areas, you know this, that they're just not enough either Matterport Service Providers or are no BLK360 providers. We do a lot with the Matterport Capture team. We're on the Capture team. We do a lot for Matterport also. But if you're willing to travel, and you do good work. You got to do good work. Then you can get all the business you want, really. - Is ADAptive Property Solutions, I don't remember. Is that one We Get Around Network introduced to you or help facilitate? Or that one came from a different direction? - Yes. Yes. We Get Around Network has been one of the best things we ever did, was getting hooked up with you. And if you remember, it was about two months after we bought our first Pro1, I saw it and I said, "We got to work with these guys." Because it's been great for us. We've watched a lot of WGAN-TV Live at 5 shows and I've gotten to be friends with Kevin Dole out in California, who you know well, and we talk all the time on the phone. Just a great guy. - Yeah. Thank you for your kind note, kind words. It is nice -- the Community -- because I don't think we've had a marriage yet, but certainly a lot of us have met a lot of new friends that share a common passion and interest and, how great is that?! That's pretty cool! Thank you for being a Member of the, We Get Around Network Community since May, 2016; going back quite some time. And I want to say ADAptive Property Solutions is probably coffee shops across America that need refreshes, whatever category you're working on, it's another one of these things where a major chain needs to have a ton of as-builds done all across the country. And you're part of that essential team. - Yes, that is true. - Okay. Awesome. And Matterport Capture Services Program: how has that worked out for you? - Great. We have done a lot of stuff for them too. We have traveled all the way up to Tulsa. Actually, a lot of the work that we get is all the way out there because there's a lack of people in the area and I think we have done, we figured somewhere between 4,500 and 5,000 scans, Matterport scans, in the five and a half years, or how many years of this we've been scanning. - Let's say it will be four or five years. I want to say 2016. Is that correct? - Yes. - What kinds of other things did you do from a business development standpoint that worked out super-well for you? - Anytime that I can get in front of faces, we do well. And that includes real estate expos. We buy booths. We show our stuff. We talk to people face-to-face. Emailing, texting, and all this, every once in a while, you may get a bite, but when you can get in front of somebody and they can see the passion and you explain your work and what you do. ... We get more business from that than anything we've ever done bar none. - And what kinds of shows have you done? Have they been targeted by real estate agents too? - Yes. Yes. Real estate agents for the most part. - Have you done any shows that have been targeted to builders? - No. Well, we belonged to the homeowners association here for about two or three years and we did talk to them and we do a lot of home builders. Yes, we do shoot a lot of -- I got an order today for 10 houses for a home builder, new homes. - Congratulations. - We get that all the time. - That's awesome! Kay, you can do what my wife does: she just kicks me under the table to kind of like correct me or something. - I guess you saw the eye roll. ;-) - Pardon? - I guess you saw the eye roll. - The eye roll. He said, "We haven't done any commercial builders. Well, yeah." - We're just blessed. That's all I can say. We work our rear-ends off, but it is paying off. And there's nothing that takes the place of hard work. It's the number one thing to do. - So, when you get a client, you're obsessed about doing it right: delivery. I get that. But how do you get those first clients? So, what are some of the other things that have worked for developing new business, either in a category or a client that, let's say commercial? I mean, that's working for you and it sounds like you want to really ratchet that up. What else have you done in the commercial real estate space for business development work? - To be honest, the names I have mentioned already, the things that we, they keep us so busy, we don't have time to really go out and try to get anymore. I'm serious when I say this, and that's why: the need is there for people that want to get involved. Now, sometimes it takes a little time and a little money, but you got to believe in yourself. If you believe in yourself, that's number one. - So, I think what I heard was four things. First was ADAptive Property. - Solutions. - ADAptive Property Solutions. IFTI/PROVision Solutions, which it sounds like We Get Around Network had referred those to you, and Matterport Capture Services. - That's true. - And so, that's kind of like three, or maybe We Get Around Network is having introduced two: I guess that the key thing there is you got the business and it's long-term ongoing business. It's not a one-off project. I could imagine that you have other commercial real estate clients without necessarily naming names. I'm just trying to wonder how you got there. Are they calling you? Are they finding you? What's working for you? - Well, we've done so much Matterport work that if they search for Matterport in this area, our name fills up the first page, and we haven't bought any SEO services from anybody. We just do that much. And [our] name is passed around. People that we don't even shoot for anymore still pass our name around. We get calls every day from people that do that. And as I said, the builders, we get remodelers. I just got a call that we just picked up a company out of Kansas City that buys houses all over the Southeast and remodels and rents or sells. You're familiar with that. And they're going to be doing 20 a month. And they called us, they got our name off of a search. And because we do so much, and we put a lot out it's, because you've been on the Facebook page, we put all of our stuff out on Facebook. We put it out on LinkedIn and Twitter. And so, we do a lot of that. It's working too. - That's me stalking you on Facebook. ;-) - I know. - What kinds of things have you tried that have not worked for you? What kinds of things have you tried for business development? And it was like, "Well, that didn't work for us." - Well, generally the things that we can't get in front of somebody and that to me is the relationship part of it. All these people that we're talking about now have become friends, all these people, the names that I mentioned to you before we started, I mean, we know them, we've met them on a personal level and we've spent time with them. So, that develops. And once you do that and we get in front of them, then we can pick them up. Once again, it's the ones where the emails and the text messages and all that I just don't have a good feel for, it just doesn't work as well. - It's a challenge. We've had the pandemic. I presume you couldn't get in front of a lot of people and no one likes the benefit from a pandemic. But did COVID fill your sail with all of a sudden, no, didn't matter one way or the other. - We got busier. - You got busier. - And Matterport scans have increased. Because people were not going to houses and people were not going to look at houses yet houses were selling. So, it was because of Matterport. - So COVID actually generated business, even though it perhaps didn't generate face-to-face conversations for new business development, somehow everybody coped and said, "Hey, we need this." And engaged you to be shooting -- - Yes, absolutely. - Before I ask a little bit about husband and wife running a business together, are there either any additional tips that you want to offer or anything else that hasn't worked out that you'd be reluctant to have somebody try? - Let me say this. I don't do what other people do. I listen to what people say, and I cherry-pick their ideas or their concepts. But if you have a goal that's a mile away and you have 14 roads to get there, but they all get to the goal, you do it your way. Too many people try to do it. They listen to all these things and they try to do it somebody else's way and they can't. They need to get what makes them feel comfortable and they can always make it, just don't give up, keep working and you'll get there. If you work hard and you're honest, you'll get there. And do good work, obviously. Then you'll always get there and you'll do well in the long run. - Awesome. Husband and wife running a business together. How does that work out? Does it work? And if so, how do you make it work? And what are the trials or tribulations of being husband and wife, president and vice-president? - Roger sets unrealistic goals, but that's who he is. He is goal-oriented and he thinks, "Okay, this is going to take 23 minutes and it will take you 10 minutes to get there. And 10 minutes to get to the next place." And he's got that schedule in his mind and he thinks, "Yes, you can do 10." But wait, it took 20 minutes because there was a train or because, anyway, sometimes he sets unrealistic goals and we discussed that. But really, I think we work pretty well together. - We do. This lady right here knows the Matterport and the BLK360 as well as anybody you'll ever meet. She's a bulldog. She gets in there, and she won't let it beat her. The BLK360 is a different animal. And it's something you have to learn. And using the Capture app is nothing like using the BLK360 FIELD 360 app. I mean, you have to build the model yourself and she knows how to do it. She has worked hard at it. And I've heard people tell her that she's as good as anybody they've seen. - I may have shed a tear or two in the process. - So yeah, she does that very well. And then when I mess up doing what I do, then she tells me I mess up and we discuss it. And I say, "Yes, dear." - Is there some kind of division of labor where Kay is the authority on scanning? And Roger's the authority on telling you to scan? How do you divide up who's responsible for what? And supposed to smile at the end of the day. - The photography part of it and the drone part of it is primarily mine. She has the say as far as Matterport and BLK360. And we do whatever each of us need to do to support the other, because sometimes she'll be really busy and I'll do whatever I can to help and vice versa. - So I think what I'm hearing is Kay you're really responsible as the go-to for scanning, whether it's Matterport or BLK360. Roger, you are photos, aerial, video. Is that what I'm hearing? - That's correct. - And probably business development. - Marketing, yes. - Marketing. By the way, which drones are you using today or planning to get? - DGI. - Which ones? _ Pro 2. - Mavic. - Mavic Pro 2. - And you have a backup? - I think we have four. - Four? - Here in our house. We have two more than that, so we have six. - Yes. I've flown the drone too. I have my own. - Okay, awesome. That's terrific. Before we say, bye, are there any other tips or parting thoughts that you would say, "This is what I would say to a Matterport Service Provider to help them succeed faster?" - Well, I think one of the things is they need to be involved with other people in the business. We reach out to other people just like Kevin Dole. And I saw him first on your show [WGAN-TV Live At 5]. And that's what. - Kevin Dole Home3D.us in the greater Los Angeles area. - That's correct. And I would suggest if people have not -- I would suggest they join WGAN because it is a great place. Not only to meet people, but to get a lot of great information and a lot of time to solve problems that you can't solve on your own. So it has been great for us and we appreciated everything that you've been able to provide and that you provide for everybody. - I try to remember. - I'm sorry, Kay. You were saying? - Before the show today, I tried to remember the question that I read two, three days ago on the Forum. I didn't need the answer, but I read through the answers anyway, just because I thought, "I've had that question before but I already know my own answer." And as I read through some of the whiz guys that are so nice to provide answers to the newbies, I learned a couple of things. And I said, "Wow, I had not thought about it that way before." And I'm sorry that I don't remember which question it was, but anyway, I still learn a lot of things from all of your wonderful-- - Members. - Members that are so kind to help others and provide answers. - Yeah. Thank you. I started the We Get Around Network Forum, WGANForum.com in August of 2014. And it's amazing that today there are 83,500 plus posts among nearly 14,000 topics, that's a lot of giving and getting help. And I also think it's turned, as you said, into some relationships, isn't that nice? Which has turned into maybe a business, it's turned into some relationships, it's probably also helped you, if you ever had a problem or a challenge where you could get an answer quickly from somebody else who probably already had that problem or challenge happen. - Yes. I've used it, as you know. I've called in a panic. - And Kevin Dole, the reason I got involved with Kevin was because of WP3D He got me... - WP3D Models WordPress Plugin right? - 3DVista - And 3DVista also. And he gave us a lot of good information and we've shared information about things with him that he needed information on. So it's been a two-way street and he's really a great guy as you know. - I think one of the tips you're suggesting there is, wow, I think there's a few right there. One is, get engaged in the, We Get Around Network Forum, join the, We Get Around Network. Add third-party solutions as a way to help differentiate yourself and provide better service to clients by using additional tools that play nice with Matterport or BLK360. You mentioned just two of them, 3DVista software platform, and WP3D Models WordPress plugin. Do you recall any other third-party tools, solutions that you're also using? - No, not that you actually offer. We've got one or two, but nothing we do much with anymore. Just those two for the most part. - All right. That's cool. - You can get lost. You can actually get lost and you've got so many neat things out there, but do you know how much time it would take to learn all that stuff? That's the only problem. There's just not enough time in the day. - Yes. I actually read all the posts in the Forum. So that actually consumes a lot of my thoughts. - Yeah. You answer every one of them too. - And we appreciate you for that. - Thank you. It's just an interesting thing. I just always think, I'm sure you probably like this. You don't set out thinking about, "What can I get from somebody else?" It's like, "How can I help somebody else?" I mean, that's really why you're on the show today is, giving back to others in the Community. And I just find the more I give, actually the more things that just happen as a result of that. - That's true. - So how exciting that today I make a living from a free Forum, how is that possible? But it is. And that was all for me, just started by going out, doing a lot of Matterport scans, and posting about what I was learning, problems I was having. And then all of a sudden people chiming in on solutions. Kay, how about you get the last word? Any other tips that you want to offer to the We Get Around Network Community about how to succeed faster with either Matterport or BLK360? - I think we said it all. - We covered a lot. Kay, Roger, thanks for being on the show today. - Thank you very much. - Thank you, Dan, we appreciate you. - God bless. - Thank you. We've been visiting with Roger Owens, President of RKO Photography and his wife, Kay Owens, the Vice President of RKO Photography. RKO Photography is at RKO.Photography. They're based in the Greater Birmingham area with a satellite office in Tulsa. And it sounds like doing a lot of other nearby states as well. So for Roger and Kay, I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum and you've been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. |
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 WGANStandard Member Los Angeles |
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| Dan, thanks for posting this. Work prevented me from watching this WGAN-TV episode but I'm very interested. Roger and Kay are masters in the 3D scanning field and I've got so much ahead to learn from them. Thanks for posting this transcription. |
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