Transcript: WGAN-TV 31 Statistics to Help Sell Virtual Tours to RE Agents14761
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WGAN-TV 31 Statistics to Help Sell Virtual Tours to Real Estate Agents with Gilroy, CA-based Coldwell Banker Realty agent - and real estate photographer - Dave Avilla (@Dataventurer) Screen Grab: The Adoption of New Media for Real Estate Marketing by Dave Transcript: WGAN-TV 31 Statistics to Help Sell Virtual Tours to RE Agents Free 44-Page Stats Loaded Pitch Deck Added to WGAN Sample Forms Library Hi All, Transcript below ... Gilroy, CA-based Coldwell Banker Realty agent - and real estate photographer - Dave Avilla (@Dataventurer) has created a 44-Slide PowerPoint presentation for real estate photographers to communicate with real estate agents how buyer/seller/market conditions have changed in the last 12 months due to COVID and why real estate agents should adopt virtual tours. On WGAN-TV Live at 5 [5 pm EDT | GMT -4] on Thursday, April 22, 2021, Dave walked us though his real estate agent pitch deck: ✓ Adoption of Virtual Tours for Real Estate Marketing Examples of statistics in the statistics-packed presentation deck include, listings with 3D tours: -- sell 20 percent faster -- sell for 9 percent higher sales price -- 55% of buys would buy a property sight unseen -- 82% would switch to an agent offerings 3D tours During the show, we talked about how WGAN Forum Members can get this Dave's deck (.pptx and .pdf) at no charge. Spoiler Alert: The 44-page PowerPoints is in the WGAN-Sample Forms Library. Please see: ✓ How to Receive Free Access to the WGAN Forum Sample Forms Library This WGAN-TV Live at 5 show is for you if you are having trouble handling objections such as: the house will sell anyway. Best, Dan Transcript (video above) - Hi all. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Thursday, April 22nd - Earth Day - 2021. And you're watching WGAN TV Live at 5. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. You'll find us at WGANForum.com. And we have an awesome show for you today: 31 Statistics to Help Sell Virtual Tours to Real Estate Agents. We have exactly the right subject matter expert, Dave Avilla. Hey Dave. Good to see you. - Great to be here, Dan. - Dave wears a number of hats ... First, he's a real estate agent with Coldwell Banker Realty. That's in Gilroy in the Gilroy office of Coldwell Banker Realty. That's about a half hour South of San Jose, maybe an hour and a half South of San Francisco. And Dave is also a real estate photographer; a virtual tour photographer. So he wears these two hats and he's been very active. ... Dave's been very active in the We Get Around Network Forum around data. So I was asking him about that and he actually has a 44-page deck that's packed full with statistics and I just thought, "Oh, this would be an awesome show." I mean, his deck has things like ... some examples that are in this deck: 1) listings with 3D tour, sell for 20% faster; 2) sell for 9% higher sales price. 3) 55% of buyers would buy a property sight unseen; 4) 82% would switch to an agent offering 3D tours. It was such an awesome deck that he shared with me. I said, "Hey, could you come on the show, walk us through the deck, and would it be okay if we gave the deck to We Get Around Network Forum Members at no charge?" And he says, "Yeah, that would be great. That would be awesome." So, Dave, before we jump into the deck and have you take us page-by-page through the statistics, just how and why did you even get started at becoming a REALTOR? - Great question. The thing I like to do the most in my work life is connect people with resources. And at the time, a couple of years ago, I was working in apartment leasing in Silicon Valley doing high-end luxury apartment leasing for big complexes that had maybe five or six, 700 apartments. And my wife said to me, "You seem to enjoy showing property to people and working on the contract stuff." And she said, "Why don't you consider real estate?" Well, my daughter's father-in-law ... so we're both grandparents the same child ... he works for Coldwell Banker Real Estate. So I went over and talked to him and chatted for a bit by the pool a summer ago. And he said, "Yeah, I think you could do well at real estate." So I got my license and I started with Coldwell Banker in January of 2003. So I'm still kind of a new agent in that regard, but that's how I got into real estate. I have a background in high-tech sales of over 20 years in Silicon Valley behind that. So sales are kind of what I do. - Awesome. And where does the photography come in? How and why did you become a photographer? - Well, that segues into the real estate thing because in January or February [2020], I went to see the broker in our office and I said, "I'm here. How do I start getting business?" And he said, "I tell all the new agents, do open houses. Do open houses because then you can meet people; you can get out there and kind of mix it up." And so I said, "Great." So I started contacting other agents in the office and said, "Hey, can I help you with an open house?" So I did a few of them until March the 17th. That's the day when our country- - 2020. - 2020 is shut down all of the in-person open houses. So I started thinking, "Now, what do I do?" I mean, I couldn't even knock on doors and I didn't have a large group of people or mailing list or whatever. So I started to kind of poke around a little bit and remembered when I was working in the leasing, we used Matterport tours for the apartments and they worked fine. I mean, sometimes we could show people the apartment on the computer instead of having to take them out, walk around the property. And that works sometimes if it was rainy or whatever. So I thought, I better check this out. So that's when I found the We Get Around Network Forum because I started just poking and looking around and doing what I like to do, which is find resources. And at the time, I came across the Zillow 3D tour program that they had. And so, I checked that out. I did a lot of research on the cameras and the equipment and the software. And it was a lot of research because it's not just the camera, it's the application. And so I looked at a lot of the 3D tour software and tried a couple of them out and really found, the more I looked at it and I thought, if I just focus on the Zillow solution, they have an application that I can then take and post on a single page website and I don't have to mix Zillow with another kind of 3D tour and have two kinds of things. And I'll go into some details about why that's kind of a benefit. - I am confused. So how did the real estate photography virtual tours, how did that fit into being a real estate agent? - Well, because my idea was I'm going to offer 3D tours to my fellow agents, and then what I'll do is I'll promote that on Facebook through Google PPC ads, whatever, sort of like do a virtual open house for agents in my office to do the same kind of thing. Meet people, get leads from the virtual tours. And that's kind of the strategy that I was pursuing and have been pursuing. - So you need virtual tours to help you get leads for potential listings or potential buyers, potentially sellers. - Exactly. Exactly. So it was kind of a long way around, but I felt like that was something. And then as I got into it more and more, I saw the benefit of the 3D tours to do marketing with and to use for ads and that kind of stuff. But for the latter part of last year, I was focusing on producing the product. And so, to do that, I had this presentation that I showed in part because a lot of the agents, they just said, "Hey, can I do a 3D tour for you and a walkthrough video?" And they said, "Yeah, that's great." So I had this thing and this is the thing that put the fire in my belly to know that this really is a valuable tool for real estate agents. And at the point when I had to pitch somebody, I had this deck ready to go with some good data to back up why they should go ahead and work with me to do our virtual tours. - Excuse me a moment. Excuse me. Dave, in the We Get Around Network Forum, your member name is @Dataventurer ... @Dataventurer. Why this fascination with data? Why would that matter to photographers? Why should that matter to real estate agents? - Well, if you've been in sales, you've probably heard the phrase, "If you can't measure it, you can't..." Well, I think Tom Ferry says, "If you can't measure it, you can't take action on it." So before I put the deck together, I wanted to know kind of what's going on in my local territory? How many people are actually using the virtual tours? Just that whole thing, I want to get a handle around what people are doing and then ask questions about why they're doing it certain ways. So I spent some time, I was able... Because I had access to the MLS, the Multiple Listing Service, I was able to pull the data for all of the listings in my area, which is kind of a, probably a 20 mile radius circumference. There's probably about 100,000 people down here in what we call South County. - Let's do this. Let's jump into the deck because what you're about to describe is one of your slides, and I know that's not your first slide, so why don't we talk about that when we get there? Is that cool? - Great. Any other questions before we go in? - I don't. - Okay, good. Let's fire it up. Light this thing up. - All right, so if you just tell me when to go next. - Okay. Well, so this is the... The title of this is the Adoption of New Media. And I wanted to be able to have an opportunity to talk with agents about the whole scope of media, not just the 3D tours and how they fit in. So let's go to the next one. - Okay. Awesome. And I'll interject here that you're making the deck available free to We Get Around Network Forum Members. So for those that are trying to take notes, just focus on the presentation, absorb it, take it in. Dave has been gracious enough that the entire 44-page presentation deck is available free to We Get Around Network Forum Members; and it's free to join We Get Around Network Forum, WGANForum.com ... I'll talk more about getting the deck later in the show. - All right. So there's big changes already here with more coming. And let's go back to that one because I want to talk for a moment. To get somebody's attention, and this is with my coaching hat on. The reason it's good to start with changes is because people are tuned in to what's changing. I mean, that's part of our human nature, is to tune into what's going on and adjust to that and track that. So I like to start with this one here because what we want to talk about are the changes that are taking place in the marketplace and how significant they are to what we're doing as real estate people and as photographers. So heads up, we've got some things that are changing around us. Next, please. So we're looking at the changes and the trends and how and what we can adjust to. And there's changing buyer perspectives, there's changing seller perspectives, and the market changes that we're looking at. We're going to talk about some of these things. So the bullet points at the bottom are the questions we want to address. How to use virtual tours for marketing residential homes and how that's changed. What forces are driving the changes and what actions can you and I take as agents and as photographers to take advantage of those changes? By the way, as we go through this, the note section of each one of these slides has the link to the information, where the information source is. If it's an article or if it's a report or whatever. So you can find that as we go along. Next, please. All right, so what we're going to do, this is the outline for the presentation. And we're going to look at the stats since shelter-in-place. We're going to look at the survey findings; the benefits of virtual tours;, the local usage statistics are really probably the core of the research that I did in terms of how that's meaningful to me as an agent and as a photographer. And then at the end, I've got some suggestions for action. As a photographer, what can you do to build your business to contact real estate people? And I've got some ideas about that. So let's go to the next one. So this is the... This section is stats since shelter-in-place So these are the statistics that I gathered in the mid June [2020] ... Well, actually, in August because the statistics came from what was happening in the mid part of the year because that's really when COVID hit and people were really changing how they were looking for houses, they had to change. And so we've got statistics from Matterport, 157% increase. Redfin, the next slide, 300% increase from March to May. Realtor.com, the next slide, 200% increase. So you can tell, I mean, these different sources had different statistics based on what they were seeing, but you can tell it was a huge increase. The next slide goes into the Google searches and shows the keywords that we're searching that showed a 400% increase. So that gives you an idea of what kind of activity was happening during that timeframe. The next slide is from a April, 2020 article, "Would you buy a home without stepping foot inside?" And when people were asked to select which technology features they most wanted, virtual tour was number one on the list. Number one. Accurate, detailed listing information, 58%. Detailed neighborhood information, listing photos. There's still benefit from that and the ability for my agent or landlord to walk me through. So that was a kind of a snapshot in time in early April of 2020. And you can see already people were tracking on the fact that the virtual tour was a really important part of that. Let's go to the next slide which is survey findings pre-COVID. Now, these statistics take a little bit further look into the past, and because some of the data was coming from times before March of 2020, but it shows you Zillow was in that business already, Matterport was in that business already, and it shows you Zillow's claiming 10% faster sales... Go to the next slide, Dan, I'm sorry. 10% faster sales, 22% more likely to sell, the view counts and the numbers that were saved by buyers. This is important information because I want to come back to this related to Zillow. And some of the statistics that I found related to that. Let's go to the next slide which is the stats for Matterport. So Matterport, again, has kind of some skin in the game, obviously and they've got their own statistics. These were from January 7th, 2020 before COVID hit. And they're claiming they sold 20% faster. They closed with up to 9% higher listing price. Now, that particular statistic is really important to an agent because they're going to be able to show fiduciary responsibility when they talk to their client, trying to get a listing with a seller to be able to say, "Hey, it's going to sell 20% faster, which for an agent is important because he can move on to the next one." 10% higher means the agent can cover whatever kind of costs he has in terms of the media costs because the house is going to sell higher. 55% of buyers sight unseen. Now, since that start in January of 2020, that has been something that has been that statistic of people buying without seeing the property has even gone up because it's amazing. People are moving a lot out of the area to other areas and one of the ways they can check out a house is the virtual tour. And so it's become much more significant in terms of being able to look at a house and make decisions whether even to buy it, especially now when things move so quickly. Let's go ahead to the next slide. - I want to ask you about this slide before we move on, Dave. They sell 20% faster, sell at a higher sales price. I would say a lot of our Community - We Get Around Network Forum Community - would say the challenge they have with real estate agents is the agent is saying the house is going to sell anyway. The house listings are selling for more than the listing price. How do you overcome that objection despite the fact that listings with the Matterport tour sell 20% faster and at 9% higher sales price; granted before COVID - January 7th of 2020. I would imagine those statistics are even accelerated today a year later. How do you deal with those objections from a real estate agent's perspective? Do you really care that the house is going to sell faster? - Well, see, this is some of the mindset that you're dealing with in terms of agents. Now, I've only been an agent for a little over a year, but the average age of a real estate agent is 55. And some of them have been doing it for 25, 30 years. Maybe they came out teaching or some other profession. And it's interesting, they're sort of a... They do things the old way, which is why not that many of them are doing pay per clicks, paid search kind of advertising. And I asked one agent who's pretty successful in the office, she had a video and that was all she was using to sell a house that was over a million dollars and photos. And the video was nice. It was one of those lifestyle videos where there were some nice closeups and it really was well done. But I said, "Why don't you have a virtual tour so people can see the lay of the house or floor plan?" She said, "I've been doing it this way for years and it's working." So that's kind of what... And then, I met with the broker in our office just last week to kind of go over the stats that I pulled just recently. And Dan, there's even a lower percentage of people using 3D tours than in August of last year, September of last year, which is amazing. But I'll get into that detail because our houses are selling in the sub two digits days, like four, seven, eight days on the market in our area. This is the San Jose area, South of San Jose, which is a bedroom community. The houses are going for over the list price, like never before, like 108% of the asking price was the report I just saw last week for our County. - This is so important now. I'll tell you what I'll do, Dave. I'll hold my questions on this topic because we really need to dive into this, this essential important question. Houses selling faster, less days on market, higher price than listing price. How do you handle those objections? So I'll hold that discussion for after we've moved further through your deck. - Okay. Let's go to the next slide. And by the way, I am going to answer that question with a reference to adjusting marketing tactics. So this is a slide that was interesting because 84% of home buyers... This was actually from a 2018 survey of Coldwell Banker. 84% of home buyers would like to see a virtual tour of a home prior to visiting the prospective property. So here's a really good pitch to an agent to say, "If you have a virtual tour, what you can do is pre-qualify people and not have to be showing houses to people that as soon as they walk in, they realize this isn't really what we're looking for." And 65% of home buyers continue to believe it's going to continue to be a resource. That was also the 2018 survey. And that definitely is where things are at. Let's go to the next slide. This is the- - I think you like that slide so much that you- - I liked it so much we doubled that. Okay, good. Let's go to the next one. Now, this is a slide that I just added because it was from the Zillow presentation from April the 2nd. And you can see, because I wanted to see how things have changed? - As the people the second this year because we've- - This year, right. - From 2020, this is 2021. - So you can see it's very strong, same kind of thing. Video tour with an agent. Things really didn't change that much. There's still the 3D tour that is still very strong. And what's even stronger though, is the amount of people that are buying houses, sight unseen which is amazing to me. Let's go to the next one. So the benefits of virtual tours, this is kind of where we can kind of sell a little bit. Let's go to the next slide. So for an agent, this is really important. Listen, Mr. Agent, if you have immersive media on your listing, people are going to be able to go in, they're going to be able to take a really good look at the property and the ones that you spend time with that are going to become disqualified, they can disqualify themselves by looking at the listing online. They can see the home's details remotely. And by the way, this is what the buyers were looking for in the middle of March last year [2020]. The best one I think is to create a shortlist of homes to see in person because people are doing open houses now. By the way, in my area, they're not doing... You have to make arrangements ahead of time, you have to go with an agent. It's pretty laborious. And so when people get in their car to go- - This didn't say Gilroy, California, so that's- - Yeah, it's Santa Clara, Northern California, San Jose, up through San Francisco, up above the bridge. It's all that whole area. It's a Megapolis. So it's not really... Until we get to where Gilroy is sort of a bedroom community, there is land around where we live, but 20 minutes, 30 minutes North, it's the start of the suburban area. So you can see the details here help to see more homes without having to drive around. That's a really strong benefit of virtual tours. Let's go to the next one. What buyers like about virtual tours is kind of... Oh, the millennium slide, okay. So this slide here shows why using virtual tours are great because millennials are the largest home buyer segment and 88% of them were likely to use the online resources- - Forgive me. We were talking about millennials as being 25 to 40 years old. - I think so. You know what? I think that's in the notes, the slide notes below there, but we're not going to go there now. But anyway, it breaks it down to the age groups and it shows you the millennials are the ones that are shopping online, a lot of activity on their phones. And so if we can help them with immersive media that they can get to, it's a great thing. Let's go to the next slide. This is a seller favoring virtual tours. So sellers find it important that their agent use the virtual tour. And this was back in 2018. Now, this is why when you're pitching an agent, this is one of the things that you may say, "Well, gosh, there's an extra cost to add in a virtual tour." But one of the things my broker mentioned, and she just became a broker, she was a selling agent and star. She said, "In all of my listings, I use all the media because no matter whether it's a $500,000 condo or it's a one point million dollar ranch property, I want people to see, this is how I promote my listings." So when you look at it that way, instead of breaking it down per listing cost, if you look and say, "Hey, if I can just get one extra listing a year because I'm taking approach where we are providing top-notch immersive media to all of our listings, single-page website, a video walkthrough, the photos, the map and all that kind of stuff, that's all powerful and that's what the slide kind of points to." Let's go to the next, please. - I just want to ask a question here, because I imagine that when I look at this slide, I guess what this says to me, it begs the question, is a virtual tour to help sell the house or is it to get the next listing? And if you know that- - Both. - Sellers favor virtual tours by 77% in 2018, and gosh, it must be incredibly much higher today. And it seems that if the agent is telling you, "No, I don't need to do a tour because we're already seeing houses sell within four days, selling higher than listing price." That you could almost say, "Hey, it's not about selling this house. You're going to sell this house anyway. It's likely to sell fast. It's going to sell probably for more than your listing, but you're having trouble getting listings." That's the big problem today across America is there aren't enough listings. I think The Wall Street Journal, just this month [April 2021], said there's 4 million houses less than what Americans could consume today if they were on the market. So that's what this slide says to me, is if the real estate agent is saying, "Oh, the house is going to sell anyway, it's going to sell for more than I listed it." I would just agree with them and say, "Yes, but we're going to help you win the next listing because sellers are expecting houses to be sold with virtual tours." And if you're talking to millennials between 25 and 40, then they're probably not the ones that are mashed up with the agents that are doing it the old way as you were talking about earlier with minimal digital assets. - Yeah, I think they're doing a lot of shopping online before they even contact an agent. So the next slide is from another source, 99% of sellers say a 3D tour would give their listing a competitive advantage. Dan, this is also one of the reasons why I wanted to get into shooting the tours and stuff so I'd have the experience to be able to go in and say, when I did have a listing opportunity to say, "This is what I've done already for a couple of dozen listings." And show the single-page websites on Show & Tours, which is where I've been putting my single-page websites and stuff. Let's go to the next one, please. - Showandtour.com as a company that provides delivery of digital assets and single property websites. showandtour.com ... - Yeah, they're on the [www.WGANForum.com] you know that. So here's what sellers like about the tours. Maximum exposure and views. Now, one of the things here too, we're seeing situations here in the Bay Area where houses sell quickly with multiple offers, like unbelievable multiple offers. And so, the virtual tour can give more people a chance to get involved in bidding because a lot of them are bidding now without contingencies, which means without even doing an inspection of the house, they're bidding on the houses. So an immersive media presentation can help more people get a good feel of whether they want to take the jump and do that. And then, of course, take an in-person tour. And this is a summary of what agents look like. This is what we've been talking about. Differentiate yourself. Brand yourself as a technology expert because that's who the millennials want to relate to, somebody that they see is using technology and making good use of it. So good. Next slide, please. So here's an angle, again, to lean on the agents with 82% would switch to an agent offering the 3D tours. Now, we don't want to encourage switching. That's something here it's frowned upon among agents, but if somebody is not selling their house and it's on the market for days and days and the listing lapses, this is certainly a good pitch to go in and say, "Hey, you didn't have a 3D tour? You didn't have immersive media to pitch your house. Let me work with you and be your agent for that." Next, please. Okay, local usage statistics. This is where... Let's go to the next slide where I did some homework. Now, this is the stats from a listing pulled August the 18, 2020 in my area. [Gilroy, CA] There were 84 homes. And this is in the two cities where there's about, I don't know, 50,000 people in each city. They're about 12 miles apart. And in between there's another non-incorporated area that's got a couple eight or 10,000 people. So of the 84 listings that were active residential homes in August of 2020, only 37% had tours and 63% did not. So then I was going to drill down, what did they have? So 51% had a webpage, photo slideshows. And photo slideshows, I want to be real specific about what that is. That's the Ken Burns style, take the pictures and just kind of move them around kind of thing, which I think is kind of old style, but 38% of them had that. --- (Continued below ...) |
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| (Continued from above ...) --- Video tours, only 18%. And they were all for a million plus properties which is quite a few in our area. Photos only, 26%. So 26% of the listings, all they had was photos, not even a photo slideshow. So I drilled down even further the 360 tours to take a closer look at the segmentation based on the cost of the, or the selling price of the, or the asking price of the property. So you can see, 74% of that 31 that had the tours up at the top, 74% had tours if the property was over a million dollars. And then that next bracket there, 700 to 99K, which is really most of our property down here because you can see there's 30 altogether. The 31 that had the tours and the combined number of the million dollar and the 700 to 99K was 30. So 22%. And then the ones that no tour, over a million, 28% of them did not have a tour over a million dollars - So what's your conclusion looking at this MLS data for the Gilroy, California area? - And by the way, the next slide, I don't want to go to yet because it's got an update kind of side-by-side. But my sense was, people that had listings over a million dollars, they're smart enough to know they need to do immersive media and include a 3D tour. Now, for agents in our area, 95% of the tours are Matterports. 95% of the tours are Matterports. Not that many people are doing Zillow because the photographers don't want to do Zillow tours because there's not as much money in them, but there's more properties. Like look, 53 out of 84 homes, 63% did not have a 360 tour. Now, some of those are in that $700,000 to $999,000 range that did have a tour, but look how many didn't have a tour. 53% did not have a tour. I'm sorry, 53 out of 84. Now, that to me is a target market. So if we can put together as a photographer a compelling offer, then boy, there's some real opportunities there. Now, this is where... Let me talk about the sales pyramid because at the top of the pyramid, you've got properties that are two, three, four million. And in this area that I'm talking about, there's probably... Right now, there's probably five or six properties that are over 2 million. But a lot of properties in the $700,000 to $999,000 range, and which means the agents make an... If they make a two and a half percent commission, they're making $25,000. And then by the time they pay the brokers a portion and they split and that kind of stuff, they're making about 80% of that of the gross commissions. So they've got plenty of money to pay for tours and many of them do. But the reason they're not is because a lot of these people aren't getting that many listings. So when they get a listing, they think, "Ah, I got to keep all of it and not spend the money." And there's also thinking, "Hey, it's going to sell any way in two weeks." So- - Well part of my takeaway from this, Dave, looking at the data that you put together from your MLS for Gilroy, California was if you're talking to an agent that is not doing tours and all the tours at the high-end or the listings at high ends have tours, then you're able to make the pitch to the agent to say, "Virtual tours will help you get bigger premium listings because people with homes that are worth more money expect that the agent is going to provide virtual tours." And so the problem you as an agent have, despite the fact that every house you get a listing for will sell, you're probably not doing bigger premium listings because you're not doing what people with listings that are worth more money expect. - Correct. There's two angles on that and we've addressed both of those. But definitely, definitely. This is powerful stuff because in fact, let me tell you, I showed this to our field marketing person, and they're kind of in an area like he helps five or six different offices. And I showed this to him and he said, "You know what? I would not recommend that you show this to all the agents in the office." He said, "You got some really good information here. You should be picky and choosy about who you work with." He said, "I wouldn't do a presentation to the whole office because if people see this, this could change the way that they spend their money for marketing stuff, so." Let's go to the next one. - And hopefully, spend the money with you. - Yes. We're talking here about both agents and photographers. And so, we're kind of mixing this all up and hopefully, people can glean this. Now, I just did this one on April the 1st and you can see its a side-by-side of the slide we just looked at. And it's interesting; the 360 tours are even less the top line. Look at the drop there. - Why is that? How is that possible? - Because I think houses are selling quicker. So if people figure- - It sounds like if that's the observation today, April 22, 2021 houses are... There's fewer days on the market, houses are selling for above listing price. Then it behooves us as photographers to make the point to the real estate agent, it's not about selling the house. You're going to sell the house anyway. It's about getting the next listing. - Year, I think you're right. - ... since you can show through your statistics that houses with virtual tours sell on average for 9% more. And that was based on Matterport statistics done before COVID. But if houses sell at least 9% more that have a virtual tour, then not only are you helping yourself get the next potential listing. You're paying for your virtual tour photography out of the additional price you're going to get the homeowner, you're going to have a happier homeowner that hopefully, is going to tell their friends, colleagues through social media or other means that they were super-happy with their agent because the agent helped them get more offers than they expected for more money than they expected and were able to sell the house faster than they expected. - Good points. - So that seems like even though the problem identified is that there are fewer virtual tours in April of 2021 than August of 2020 in Gilroy, California. I think we need to make sure that we've shifted our pitch, that it's not about selling the listing. It's about getting the next listing. It's about trading up, getting more, bigger, premium listings, not about the house. Does that seem like a fair assessment? - It does. I want to point out, if you look at the bottom part of the screen there, the closer look, the percentage that is pretty close for a 360 tour usage by both of those tiers above $700,000. So that's pretty close. - Which reiterates, if the problem that an agent has is they're still doing lower price homes, then doing virtual tours is a way to help trade up to bigger premium listings. Using this house for sale today is a way to get the next house for more money, particularly based on your earlier slide showing that millennials expect that an agent is going to provide digital... I just think, this 55 year... On average, a 55-year-old agent that is doing things the way they always did stuff, they don't even know what's behind the door; that there's even another door; that the millennials will just ignore them because they're not communicating in a way that. I'm going to say we, I'm going to include myself in that 25 to 40 year old millennials that... Why are you laughing? ;-) That's the way we expect that our agent is going to help us sell our home is by using an arsenal of digital assets that includes virtual tours. - So let's go to the next slide because that kind of dives into this part of the media usage and some stats on that. - Let me ask you on this slide though, going back to the MLS data, to compile this data, did you need to actually look at each listing or were you able to do an export of data and each of these is represented by a field in that data? - Good question. So I was able to export the listings that had some basic information in a spreadsheet format. And it also grabbed... That particular report grabbed the virtual tour links, the field links. So what I did was I did go to each individual listing to check and see what they had. Whether they had a web page for the property because you can't tell just by looking at the report to check that. And what I found out was a lot of people are calling the virtual tour a Ken Burn style photo slideshow. It's not a 360. - So in the case of your data, I think we can say that you really did go look to see that a virtual tour was either a 360 tour or a 3D tour, not a slideshow that some people use? - Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was important. I had to go because the report did not pull... Well, actually, the way it's categorized in the MLS, it doesn't have that kind of granularity of detail. In fact, I wrote a letter to the MLS asking them if I could get together and kind of go over this next thing I want to talk about which is residential real estate media types. - I promise, I'm going to hit the button in a second, but I just want to punctuate with what you just said is because we as a photographer may be talking to an agent and we're talking about virtual tours, thinking they don't use it, and the agent is thinking, "Oh, I don't know what he's talking about." Hasn't done his research. I use virtual tours all the time. So we're having a disconnect because the agent is describing a virtual tour as a slideshow, as a virtual tour, where we're talking about actually a way to actually walkthrough the house and experience - - A very good point. So this is a distinction. A distinction is made regarding virtual tours. So you've got the photos with a manual viewer, like a gallery. You've got the photo slideshow, which is kind of old style. It's kind of old style. And what I see as some of the packages that the media providers, the guys that take the pictures and the drones and stuff, the drone shots, they usually throw in a photo slideshow because they can put one together in 20 minutes by dumping the stuff onto a timeline and doing the stuff automatically. But the problem is my research was looking... I had researched looking at how long people spend looking at the 3D tour on Zillow. And I also had data showing how long people looked at the videos. And the average for the time on a 3D tour was 48 seconds. All right? Which means people get in there, they move things around, they look around, they click around, and that was the average time. The average time on the video was similar. And the problem is that a lot of the videos are like a minute and a half, two minutes. And what that told me was, people don't want to sit there and look at somebody else's walkthrough, especially the slideshows. I didn't really have any stats on that. I bet they'd be even worse. But if somebody is used to clicking around, looking at stuff, opening things, they want to move quickly. I don't think they are inclined to sit and watch a photo slideshow as they would be a 360 tour or click through the pictures real quick. And then if they're interested, then they'll look at the video, but the slideshow, yeah, I'm not sold on that. The live or recorded guided tour, I did not see anybody with those. So that's something that's... The agents have to get in front of the cameras and they're just, they're hesitant to do that. I mean, they don't know about the media. That's why the Momenzo app is so helpful because if somebody's kind of inclined, they can get in there and use that Momenzo video app and do a walkthrough and do a pretty good job of that. - What Dave's describing is Momenzo, an application for creating real estate listing videos in less than 15 minutes, including your shoot. You can learn more about it at WGAN.INFO/MOMENZO. WGAN.INFO/MOMENZO. Use the coupon code: WGAN10 WGAN10 - to save 10%. On this live and recorded guided video tour, do you think there's an opportunity for real estate photographers to run that in behalf of the real estate agent that you come out and facilitate the Zoom or the Facebook, or not a business opportunity? - Well, for a recorded one, yes. For a live one, I'm not seeing that many people do live tours because you have to get out to the property and sit there and hope somebody jumps into your Zoom session. And there's not that many people. So I did a search in our area of people doing live open houses, okay? That's where somebody would be maybe at the property and they're just... Even in the San Jose area, there was just a handful, just a handful. Some of those that came up were actually recorded tours, like a 360 tour that you... They were kind of fudging on the definition of a live virtual tour. But if somebody is going to do it, you could probably offer to do the recording, like with a gimbal recording an agent - and then put that up. That would be very helpful and probably pretty quick and easy to do. - Just wondering where all those Add Ons are available. You're on property... I mean, today with COVID - we may be on just a pause for a while - but I'm thinking, "Oh, well, you're there shooting the house on the one day that it looks as best as it will ever be, not before the shoot, not after the shoot. It is at its peak prime showing." So is there another piece of digital media that can be captured where... And maybe that just depends on the agents. Some agents feel comfortable in front of a camera, some don't feel comfortable. - That's a good point. - So if you're comfortable in front of the camera, "hey, how about I just redo a live to tape walkthrough of the house with you narrating the property?" - Okay. Let's keep moving. Next slide. So with all this data that I had gathered, the next question is, okay, what do I do with it? I mean, kind of where do I focus? So what I did, I got some statistics here about website traffic on some of the big real estate platforms. And this particular slide is the top five real estate apps by downloads. And I think I can't see the detailed page on this, but I'm sure it was like last year [2020], maybe. But Zillow and Trulia are the same group, they're from the same company. And they're in the top five. So you can see those are the people that are downloading those apps to look for property. Next, please. So this next slide shows the traffic for August of 2020 worldwide in the real estate space. So these are the top 10. Now, I circled the ones that were US-based and which happened to be the ones that had the app downloads on the page before that, which is interesting. Now, what you can see here is the traffic share for Zillow was 289 million, okay? If you add Trulia together, 289 and 66, you're up over 350 million. You've got to add all the rest of them, the other three together, they get close to 350 million. In fact, I think it's probably over that. So you can see Zillow, the traffic is going to Zillow and shows you what the share is. So between Zillow and Trulia, it's like 10% of a traffic share for real estate based searches. Next, please. - Looking at this page, that really stood out for you that it was really important for a photographer to put marketing, to be making sure that Zillow is covered because that's where the traffic is. - Right. And I think... So the next slide shows a comparison with whole Coldwell Banker Homes which is the REALTOR that I'm associated with. And you can see, it just pales, it pales in comparison. The local MLS listings, which is people... There is a customer facing version of that site. I mean, it's under a million per month and this shows you, so if an agent thinks that they're because they've got a listing on Coldwell Banker, there's not that many people, there's not as many people coming to that site. They're missing a huge part of the business, especially when you begin to look at, if it scrapes it off, scrapes the data off and the media off onto Zillow, what's showing up on Zillow? What's showing up on Zillow?. And I'm going to look at that in detail. Next, please. - Well, Dave, earlier in the presentation, you talked about fiduciary responsibility of a real estate agent. - Yeah. Yeah. - I don't know, I'm looking at this page. I don't know if you can tell an agent. I mean, can you actually say, "Hey, if you're telling me you're only listing... If you're not doing something on Zillow, then you're..." I want to be careful here, but it's like, is it malpractice that if you're not doing something on Zillow because that's where people are looking for homes? - Well, let me be clear. People like Coldwell Banker agents will post their media to the Coldwell Banker Homes website. Then it gets scraped off by Zillow. So Zillow is looking and checking Redfin.com and realtor.com and the other site, the smaller sites to pull that data in. But then the question becomes, what are they pulling? And that's the question that I want to address when we kind of look at Zillow a little bit closer because if you're an agent or a photographer, you're going to want to make sure that all this media that you've worked on shows up on Zillow. - So I'll pause my comments because you have pages coming up that speaks to this. - A little bit, yeah. So these are some more traffic details. Now, the interesting one on this one is the bottom statistic which is the bounce rate. And this means somebody comes to the site and they leave without going to another page. So it shows you Zillow's got a pretty low bounce rate. Coldwell Banker has a pretty high bounce rate. Now, if you go to the far right MLSlistings.com ... its got a very low bounce rate. And the reason why is because the agents go there all the time to enter data, change their listings, to update their listings, to do research like I was doing. And if you look at the line, visit duration, you can see when people visit Zillow, they're on that website and average is seven minutes compared to two minutes with Coldwell Banker, three minutes with Homesnap, and of course, MLS listings has even more. The other thing with Zillow, if you look at the second to the bottom line, pages per visit, somebody gets on Zillow, they're looking at 21 different pages average compared to Coldwell Banker 2.5, Homesnap, which is a sort of an interface wrapper for websites that a lot of people have their app, 5.85. And then MLS listings, you can see. And people that are on the MLS listings, most of the time are going to be agents. Next, please. So what are the most cost effective media choices? So I think we made the case that immersive media attracts more views, more interactivity is better, so 3D where somebody can get in there and move it. Now, one of the things that I got from some of the other agents is, "Oh, I don't like 3D tours. They're hard to maneuver." And that's because they don't use it. When I was at the leasing company in the leasing office, we used that a lot. So I got used to it and it's easy enough to use. And of course, the millennials and the gen X-ers, they become familiar with it and it's not a hurdle for them to jump in there and move around really quickly to get a view of what's going on in the house. And they can control the speed. - Generation X-ers, I want to say 41 to 56 in age, millennials, 25 to 40 years of age. So 25 to 56, a big segment of the population is expecting technology to be used to help sell their house. And you're talking about agents that feel uncomfortable with technology. - Right, because they personally feel uncomfortable with it, they don't see the benefit and so they... That's why this presentation is so powerful because it's got data. It's got data. - How do you deal with that? How do you deal with an agent that is seeing the world through their lens of, "Oh, nobody uses that, it's too hard to use" ... - Well, this is why I show them the numbers. - Houses with virtual tours sell on average 9% higher, sell faster, houses with tours tend to be higher priced which means that you have an opportunity to trade up with bigger listings. So, "Hey, if you don't like to use it, that's fine. But if you want to get bigger listings, you want to get more listings, you want to help sell houses for more money to help pay for your marketing, then you can't ignore it." - So Dan, you have focused on that and that's powerful. But what I want to do is also add in another marketing tactic for photographers because of the Zillow opportunity. Now, let me go through this then, okay? The bottom of this slide. - Next slide? - The bottom of this slide... Well, not yet. The bottom of this slide points out Zillow doesn't pull all the media from the MLS if it's not put in the right place. The MLS that I work with, they cover Santa Clara County and around the peninsula bit, they have four URL fields. And if you don't put the Matterport tour in the right field, it doesn't show up on Zillow. And so, that's an important part of making sure that the media... And also, that's another good reason why if you could do a single-page website, then there's no question when they land on their website, it's got all the media that people can see instead of just the Matterport tour or just the photo gallery, or the map, that kind of thing. So I think if you could do a single page website and Show & Tours, has a really easy way to do it. I mean, you could do a Show & Tours single-page website, probably in 20 minutes at the most. - ShowAndTours.com - ShowAndTours.com - ShowAndTours.com - ShowAndTours.com - ShowAndTours.com ShowAndTours.com Okay? - Now, I talked to the Zillow media guy a couple of weeks ago, and a couple of things are happening. They are rolling out the floor plans, the Zillow floor plan free with a... If you do a Zillow 3D tour, they're not in all of the cities yet. In fact, there was such an adoption that they had to put a pause for two weeks, so they could catch up with all of the orders for the floor plans. But they're moving in that direction. The other thing that they're doing is they are incorporating the Matterport tours at the top of the carousel which they have not been doing. In Zillow before, the listing would have the Matterport tour down in the column on the right-hand side, kind of buried unless you know where to look for it. So there's some changes happening. Let's go to the next slide and we'll take a look at the Zillow. This is the Zillow presentation, all right? And this is the one where they're pushing the Zillow 3D tours. So this is what the Zillow listing looks like. If you have a 3D tour, it's located at the very top of the carousel, right underneath the first two slides. If you have a Zillow 3D tour, it also bumps it in the listing. And he told me, even though they're going to put Matterport tours into the slot here, they're not going to give the Matterport tours the same bump that they give a Zillow 3D tour, okay? So you get that? So if you do a 3D tour, it automatically appears... A Zillow 3D tour automatically appears. Let's go to the next slide. So one of the benefits that I really like is you can filter to see just the 3D home tours and the bottom map that's showing there, if you do a map view on Zillow, you can see the icon for the 3D home. And this is really- - Dave, let me say it a little bit differently here because you said you can do a filter that must have 3D home. I would think I would say that as a prospective home buyer, maybe filtering by "must have 3D home" and therefore the agent's listing may never get viewed if the prospective buyer is filtering by "must have 3D home" - That's what the top shows there. That's right. You must have that. The bottom slide shows the banners and that's kind of what I was starting to focus on. But you made a very good point. If you don't have a 3D home tour and somebody is looking for that and we saw how important it was to people because look, if somebody has the weekend to look at houses, they're going to want to make a short list. And I think they would start out, if I was going to search, I would start out looking at the listings that give me the most information, so I can decide whether I want to put it on my shortlist or not. And so that's why that search criteria is so important. - I would add to that, I believe I read even just this month in The Wall Street Journal that 20% of America moved in the last 12 months. And I would imagine a substantial percentage of those were people who were out-of-town buyers and therefore, we're having more people make decisions, what we would call sight unseen and having a 3D tour may be absolutely essential for those that are relocating from outside the area to make any kind of confident offer on a house. - Absolutely. In fact, that's why when people are moving to the Midwest, Florida, Texas, they're not going to be able to get on a plane. And especially, when property's becoming available and it's sold within three or four days on multiple offers. And the buyers that are coming from California to those areas, they're used to technology, they're used to being on the web all day long. And if they can get in and get a good look at the house, that's going to enable them to feel confident to move forward. Next slide. On this next slide, I wanted to point out this is a map screenshot that I took of an area, actually, a little further away from Gilroy, CA a little bit more South, it's not as big of a town. This shows all of the listings on that date. And there's only... I can only see one listing that's got a Zillow 3D home tour. And that's the agent that I took the tour for. - Crazy. - It's kind of a case in point that... Well, let's go to the next one. The next one is Gilroy, CA. And this was back in the fall 2020. You can see the 3D home tour banner one. I only see one. I think there were two, one of them was hidden down below. But out of all the homes listed in Gilroy. Now, so you can see if somebody is using Zillow as their go-to search site and they pull up a map search, what's the first thing that's going to pop up? It's the 3D tour icon, okay? Let's go to the next slide. 3D badges draw attention to your listings in the search results here and also, of course, in the map search. Next slide. They also appear in the mobile search. So even if you're on mobile, you're going to be able to see that. So that's very helpful. Next, please. So what I found out was Zillow 3D tours are not just for Zillow and Trulia. They can use on the MLS and social media too. So this is what the interface looks like for the Zillow 3D home tour dashboard. And you can share an unbranded copy to social media. You can share it and put it on the single page website. And it's pretty easy to do. You have to use a certain kind of a camera, the Ricoh cameras, but I bought a Ricoh Theta SC2 Camera back in the spring and it was like $249. And they're even cheaper now. So it's pretty easy to get in and let me address the issue with... Well, let's go to the next slide too, so we can kind of keep moving here. Putting the pieces together, so if I'm speaking directly now to the photographers, how are we going to put this together? Let's go to the next slide, please. Suggestions for action. Next slide. So conclusions. Immersive media is exploding in popularity. The sellers want it. There's agents... I mean, it's a benefit to agents. It positions them as a market leader. So the questions I wanted to address were where are we missing opportunities to use immersive media? What are the most cost effective media choices? And who are the online sites with the most potential reach? And I think you could probably... I'm not going to tell you what the answer to number three is. And the question, why aren't more agents utilizing immersive media? So let's go to the next slide there. So actions to take immediately. I would recommend creating Zillow 3D home tours and posting them to Zillow listings and adding the Zillow walk-throughs. Now, that's something you could pitch to every agent. Now, here's where I think kind of a change in strategy might work. And it's been talked about on the [www.WGANForum.com]. So the Matterport tours do a great job. They do a great job. And for somebody that's got a luxury listing, it makes all the sense in the world to use that high-end listing. But if that's the only bullet in our arsenal, then what about all those other lower priced properties that we're not using anything, not even a video walkthrough? So in terms of the strategy regarding a pyramid, if you think of the cost at the bottom, being lower cost properties, the cost at the top being higher priced properties, the higher priced properties, there's fewer of them. So there's less of an opportunity to catch a Matterport tour. As you move down the pyramid where the base gets wider, there's more opportunities. And we saw that in the numbers that I brought. Now, the challenge is how to craft an offer that makes sense for you as a photographer to help the agent be responsible in using all the immersive media and something that works for you so you're not undercutting your prices? And there's been some discussions on the tour on the forum regarding the pricing and kind of what that is. But I would encourage the photographers here to take a look at a lower price package that you could get from everybody. Everybody that's in the office knows, "Hey, I can call up this photographer. I can get a Zillow 3D tour that I can put on the Zillow listing. I can get a video walkthrough." By the way, Zillow also has video walk-throughs. Now, you can put anything on there. I think it has to be below 500 megabytes and they recommend under two minutes. But this is where the Momenzo app [WGAN.INFO/MOMENZO Save 10% with coupon code: WGAN10] can help you slam together a walkthrough tour. Now, there's a couple of reasons why you might use a video tour. One of them is so you can walk people through just to see the lay of the house. Some of the videos that are what I call lifestyle videos, that it's the girl riding the horse through the vineyard with her hair flowing and the cows grazing in the pasture, and you could see the closeup of the grass kind of blowing and you haven't even seen the house yet. That kind of stuff definitely is high end. And if you've got a property that's two to 4 million, $5 million, absolutely. You spend five grand on a video like that or even 10 grand for that kind of a thing. But for somebody that.. For a viewer that wants to see... What's the lay of the land in this house? So if you don't have a floor plan, a walkthrough is really good. You just take the gimbal, you knock on the front door, push the door open and walkthrough. And you can see kind of what that looks like. And the ones that I- - Again, this is Momenzo ... I think the WGAN affiliate link, WGAN.INFO/MOMENZO save 10% with the coupon code WGAN10, that's: WGAN10 And I think the interesting thing there is you're advocating shooting Zillow 3D home tours. You might as well get a gimbal for that. Now that you've got the gimbal, it works great for shooting the walkthrough video too. So you can get gimbals anywhere from $100 to $250 for your smartphone. - Yeah, I have DJI3 and I got it before the DJI4 came out and it works with FiLMiC Pro for Android. And it takes great pictures. I mean, good enough. So then let me get back to this. So I want to encourage you photographers that are professionals not to be snobs about the quality because here's the reason why. If somebody's going to spend an average of 48 seconds looking at your video or your 3D tour, and maybe even less looking at your video tour, unless they're really interested in the average. I would not kill yourself putting together an Oscar winning presentation. Do something that gives... Because here's the other thing, the agent wants to give people a good enough perspective of the property so that they call up and say, "Hey, I'd like to set up an in-person viewing visit." So the cell phone with the gimbal, do the walkthrough and a [Ricoh Theta 360 Camera] you're like the V or the Z1, I don't know which one's better than the SC2, but those are accepted by the Zillow program. You can do and then put together a package. To do a 360 tour with the Zillow app, it takes about 20 minutes. You set the thing up and drop it, then you'd get behind the door, push the button, move it to the next room, and then when you get home it takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to put that completely together and post it up the video tour with Momenzo. [WGAN.INFO/MOMENZO] You don't even have to talk. You can put the text in there when you get back really easily. And it produces a really, really decent walkthrough. And if you could sell that to an agent, now, this is where... Let's move to the next slide because this is the epilogue. - I just want to amplify what you said because this whole conversation, are you an artist or a business person? Lots of discussions on that. And the We Get Around Network Forum [WGANForum.com]. The point is, as you were describing that pyramid, the most listings are at the base of the pyramid. And so you really do need a price point of whether it's a $149 or $249 or $299, whatever it is in your market is an Add On for a video walkthrough or an Add On for a Zillow 3D home tour. But ever that, if you have a workflow that can be done super-fast, super-easy, like Zillow 3D home, like a video walkthrough, then you actually can get into the house, out of the house, and actually have two or three, four products to offer a client that can be done efficiently. - And also it changes your target. You could target agents that are selling houses that are less expensive. They're not going to make as much commission, but if you could find a price point that's in between here, ... Pardon me. - There's more potential buyers at a lower price point for a photographer than there are for that epic award-winning horse galloping in at the sunset. - Let me show you, I wasn't able to show this or put this in the slide presentation because it's... I checked to see if it was considered proprietary information, but it's the "bronze package". So I'm sure Coldwell Banker has four different media packages that they offer their agents. And they actually pay part of the package. Like this package here is $159 and includes professional photography, which I think is 30 photos; a single property website. And they do some online advertising for 10 days, a slideshow, which again is that video slideshow thing. And then they do some other stuff that's social media stuff. So to get a 3D tour in this, the bronze, silver package, platinum, gold, the platinum package is the top one. You have to pay $995 to get a 3D tour. And it does not... You get a choice of a Matterport 3D tour; a video or a drone. So $995 just to get one of those. So you can see if somebody sees the value of the 3D tours, you can offer them something that's somewhere in the middle. So here's what I would do. Let me talk to you as a photographer. If I was going to try to make my living doing photography, here's what I do. There are local REALTOR associations all across the country. Now, Dan mentioned there were 400 million homes sold last year. - Oh, no, 4 million homes short. - [Dave] 4 million. - 4 million homes short of what would typically be bought. - So the other statistic I heard just this last week is there are more real estate agents in the United States than there are listings; current listings. So there's chapters, these chapters all over the place and they are made for REALTORS to get together, usually on a weekly basis. And now, they're doing these online, but they get together. And if you... Like our local chapter has probably 150 REALTORS in this area locally. And when we were meeting before COVID, people would come together at 9:30 on Tuesday morning and they would get up and talk about what they're looking for, they talk about property that they have and tell people about it. That's just being able to be listed. Now, one of the things that's happened on May 1, 2020 is this thing that's requiring that if a broker puts the property, makes it available like a coming soon, they have to put it on the MLS. So what that's causing is people can't stand up anymore and say, "Hey, I got a property coming up in six weeks. We're doing the painting right now. And it's got this many bedrooms and we're thinking about selling it for this price." And people will do that all the time until May the 1st and now they can only do that within their brokerage. So there's two things I would suggest is: 1) obtain, find out what it takes to become an affiliate to get access to that group. Because the people who are affiliates in our area, before they used to sponsor the breakfast table. There'd be coffee and donuts or whatever. And they would get up and say, "I provide a home warranty service." Or, "We're the local warranty or the local mortgage companies." So they're mortgage companies, title companies, people associated with home inspection companies, home guarantee companies, people like that that are associated and they're affiliates. So if you can become an affiliate in your local group, that gives you the chance to go to the meetings when they start having the meetings again, at least attend the webinars that are occurring now, and be able to kind of promote... You're in-person, do a promotion in person. Now, in addition, what I would try to do is try to -- if you're doing the business with agents -- you probably got some good friends, right? People that you've done business with for a number of years, and those people are part of the REALTOR association. I would ask them to give you a heads up if they can on stuff that's coming up, or better yet, get to know the REALTORS with... You could even record this thing and send it to everybody that's in the area. Now, how do you find out the people in the area? Well, it's pretty easy because you go to the... You find all of the realty brokerages in your area and you can go to the website and list everybody. Everybody's got a website, they've got a picture, they've got an email address, and you can find them that way and then mark it, phone them up, get together, whatever, email, whatever you're going to do. You could also... The last thing I've got here is the lists. So list giant, for instance, you can, for $250 minimum, you can identify a target area of up to 2,500 contacts. And they do have listings for real estate agents. So you could do an email blast or text blast and I would do a video, introduce yourself on a video, maybe even show some of the... Do like a three minute video blasting out to all these guys and say, "If you'd like more information, contact me and we can meet in person or do a Zoom call over the line. "I think you'd get a lot of interest with the bait that's in this presentation. That's why we want to make it available as a PowerPoint so you can carve it up and use whatever you think is going to help make it shorter. Definitely. - Yeah, Dave- - Oh, we're back. - Yeah, this is like so... What a gift you've given to the Community, you've compiled, created this deck of 44-pages. You're making it available to the We Get Around Network Forum Members totally free. It's free to join the We Get Around Network Forum, WGANForum.com, plus there's at least 50 plus membership benefits that are free just for joining the free WGAN Forum, including being able to get Dave's deck which is part of the WGAN Sample Forms Library. So when you go to the Forum ... WGANForum.com, there's a search box in the top-left, just type in: WGAN Sample Forms Library and you'll see details of how to actually get access, not only to Dave's 44-page presentation deck, but all the sample forms that are in the WGAN Sample Forms Library. And Dave has been kind enough, not only to give us the deck as a .PDF, but also as a PowerPoint, the .PPTX file so that you can pick out the slides that you want to use or not use or go at it. He's made the deck available totally free. Dave, I want to just come back to this whole idea and just houses are selling fewer days on market; they're selling for higher than list price; than the listing price, agents will tell our Community, "I don't need a virtual tour because the house will sell anyway." Do you have any just parting thoughts on that topic? - Yeah, I think there's no simple answer. The answer I would give is to show them the data. You know what? I know you think that I would be talking to an agent. I know you think that the immersive media is not going to help sell your house, but I have some statistics I'd love to share with you that might convince you to take a look at adding this to your marketing package for the benefit of the seller and your fiduciary responsibility to help them get the best price for their property. But also, as a tool to help you present yourself as a savvy marketer. And I think if you take a look at some of the information I've got, some of the data we've collected, it might convince you to move ahead with this, and I'd love to get together with you and do that. - Awesome. I'm ready to buy your services. I am ready to list my house for sale with you. I'm ready to buy a house for sale with you. So for those that have stuck with us, Dave is obviously a tech-savvy real estate agent. If you're in the Gilroy, California area, about a half hour South of San Jose, and you're looking to buy a house, you're looking to sell a house, you can contact Dave at DaveAvilla@gmail.com DaveAvilla@gmail.com DaveAvilla@gmail.com Dave is a real estate agent with Coldwell Banker Realty. Obviously, I want to say in a totally endearing way, super-geeky, and I LOVE that! I mean, if I'm ready to sell my house today, I want the agent that is ready to unleash an arsenal of all the technology tools in order to help me, help my wife and I, get the most offers for the most money with the least amount of hassle and close as quickly as possible, so that we can move on to the next chapter in our life. And that sounds like you are ready to help us - we're in Atlanta - But if we happen to be in Gilroy - what a great agent to work with, who's just totally obsessed with providing all the tools and solutions to help a homeowner get the most offers for the most money in the least amount of time to close and move on with their life. So thank you, Dave, for being on the show today. - You're welcome. You're welcome. We'll check back in a year and we'll see how that combination package works because we're after it. - Awesome. Dave Avilla, real estate photographer, real estate agent, Coldwell Banker, Gilroy, CA office. I'm Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum and you've been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. We need to have a little thumbnail here. - All right, there we go. - All right, got to get both thumbs at the same time. - Is this how you exit? - Yeah. I can't see your other thumb. We got to have two thumbs. - Oh, okay. There we go. Okay. - Okay, good. 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