Possible huge job estimated at 20 000- 27000 sqm14449
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 WGAN FanClub Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I cannot say what it is because Matterport itself may jump in and start competing but I may be getting a job with 20 000- 25 000 sqm floor area size I have got all floor plans and I have an idea what it looks like inside on some levels but there are small rooms, huge halls and big open indoor spaces with huge tinted windows and nothing inside. Not even thinking about doing it as one model as it can fail to align at any time or matterport later won't process it blaming me for creating such a monstrosity. So for now I am preparing an estimation how long it may take. I have been promised no people and rooms clean of any furniture but from my experience and especially for doing something big I am assuming a rate of scanning at 120 sqm per hour. It comes to over 200-225 hours of scanning for creating a model for each level. I am not bothered with small spaces there but there are huge halls of 4000 and even 9000 sqm that may be hard to scan due to really high ceiling, nothing inside for alignment to stick to. I would try BLk360 but I know it may come with problems, I have never used it before and more important it is really hard to find rental for it in Australia. Has anybody used april tags especially in places that have nothing to hung them apart from surrounding walls and I can probably use them only on a floor? Also how do you deal tags them being visible in a tour? |
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MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If rooms are clean of any furniture and people, you can go up with your estimate of 120 sqm/hour. I would probably triple it or even quadruple it. From my experience you can easily make 400 sqm per hour if there is no furniture or people around. I would not scan restrooms. I think you can scan the 25.000 within 5 to 8 days maximum. The two halls are two days, start with the small and then the large. Most important tools for this job will be - a tripod trolley - 2 or more powerbanks for your ipad - Maybe additional light - April tags - many, many doorstops April Tags can be blurred out with Matterport blurring tool, but you will still see them blurred in the tour. The 9000 sqm hall will need a BLK. The BLK is now more stable since the capture app updates last October. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks. I think the job just grew to 30 000 sqm simply because I was provided with a table of each room size and the biggest one was listed as "1-4(each)" with a size of 5000sqm. It turn out there are four of them and each is 5000 sqm. And that not even counting halls between rooms which are huge. I and my partner are now considering two options: 1) do a tour for each level with Matterport Pro2 only, quote for 30 000 sqm. 2) drop Matterport completelly or use it for rooms only and do all halls between rooms with 360 with my Pilot Era and then build a custom tour with everything connected. I believe they can afford to pay for pure Matterport only but with me scanning alone it may take me the whole month full time. |
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dave3d private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Grats wingman, I haven’t had a BLK open space alignment issue even without April tags. But my work is much smaller. Typically 25k sf or so for BLK. I carry April tags but so far haven’t needed them unless I was using pro2. Then I did for sure. If you do BLK drop me a pm. (There are considerations). We’ve thought about renting them out (BLKs) but haven’t yet. Sounds like you’d need one for a while with a project that’s still growing. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks dave3d. Since you have used it how far BLK360 can see with almost no interference from the Sun? Since spaces are huge and empty I may have the following ways to do them: 1)Matterport Pro 2 only with sweeps placed as far as possible just to get a nice floor plan & dollhouse without black holes. Since Pro2 can see may be 5 meters around it may align placing scans 5-6 meters apart but it will leave black voids in the centre of every scan. To get rid of them I believe it should be no more than 3.5 meters between every scan. In 10000 sqm space I may need about 1000 scans with Pro2 only. 2)Rent a blk360. I have just found a place where I can rent it in Australia and requested a quote from them already. If Blk360 can see 10 meters and more and can be used to build a nice dollhouse without black holes with this distance I may need 100 scans with it and after it I can just place Matterport even the same 10 meters apart. Since I know what the place is for I do not think anybody will need a detailed walkthrough so 10 meters apart even in 10 000 sqm space may let me to finish it looking nice in the final tour. So at the end for 10000 sqm space this way I may only need 100 scans with Blk360 and 100 with Matterport. This is 5 times less than with a Pro2 only and will give me more 3D data for everything including a really high ceiling. The only two reasons I do not like the idea with renting BLK360 is that 1) I have never used it before so it will be a learning curve for me while I may not have time for it. 2) there will be a lot to be paid for rental to save my customer money on scanning with a Pro2 only. So the client and rental company wins but I lose because the job is going to be done much quicker and I am paid daily rate for it by my partner. The idea with a custom built tour has been rejected by my partner. She has said they can only use Matterport in their system. I do not think she understands that a custom tour may work too as it can be just a link to open a custom tour in some overlay window. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| found some details on distances at https://support.matterport.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000643507-Prepare-to-Scan-with-the-BLK360#plan-your-scan-path-0-3 but still would love to hear from experienced BLk360 users |
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Gladsmuir private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hi @Wingman, FYI in many freelance spheres including for example editing tv commercials and shooting video for mainstream tv shows it is standard practice to charge rental for equipment. If the freelance has to rent then that is covered, if they own any of the equipment then the fee goes towards business costs. The need to rent a very specialist piece of kit really does justify this approach. Good luck with the job! Oliver |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks Oliver. I did not mean it and of course the client or my partner would be paying for BLK360 rental. I mean since I am going to use BLK360 and it will make scanning faster I may just do the whole job using BLK360 in 10 days instead of 20. My day(8 full hours) for my partner's clints scanning costs them a fixed fee per day(for example $1000 per day) so if I use a Pro2 only I will be paid $20K for my service doing it 20 days. If I rent a BLK360 though and I will do it in 10 days I will only be paid $10 000 for the whole job. The client saves $4000-5000 assuming BLK360 rental will cost $5000-6000 for 10 days and I am getting only $10000 with doing it with BLK30+Pro2 while I can get $20 000 doing it with a Pro2 only. That's a big dilemma in this particular case as it is not just a few $100s which I would not care to lose and I would rather save my client a few $1000s over a few $100 lost on four figure job. This is me losing $10 000 extra in my service fee for doing it faster. I know for sure that it is going to be the only job I will get from this exact client. As I have mentioned it is my partner's client that only wants a Matterport walkthrough to get into my client's system that the client benefits from a lot. They wouldn't even know my business name as we have an agreement with my partner that I should always be presented as a 360 photographer employed by them, not as an independent business. I do not even host their clients' tours and usually upload them for processing directly to my partner's account. |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Anyway it is my dilemma I do not want to bother the forum with it. I just wanted to explain what I mean with adding a BLK360 to this job. I will need to see first how much rental will cost. Meanwhile I am just looking for info on how it helps reducing time for scanning huge spaces. I searched on youtube and found a video from Chris(metroplex 360) It was short though with just his model shown(rooftop of some apartment complex in Dallas) but I could recall seeing some really long video about this project when he was testing Blk360 I could not find it on youtube but finally found a thread with that video on WGAN where Chris was talking with Dan about using Blk360 with Matterport. It partially answers some of my questions about how to do it and what I can expect in terms of distances. |
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 Matterport Camera Repair Service Gainesville, Florida |
MatterFix private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I recently researched a doing a large job with BLK & Matterport although client has not yet given the go-ahead. Based on what I found out, the job is quite doable with mp & blk. Scan big areas with blk and go back and fill in needed detail with mp. MP will align a lot easier once blk captures basic 3d data. Be prepared for connection problems between ipad and blk....leave ipad mounted under blk. Have best/newest ipad you can afford, extra blk batteries, swap out blk batteries at 40% power, bring blk battery charger to job and use it. I would add cost of blk rental per @Gladsmuir above. | ||
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 WGAN ForumFounder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Wingman Here are WGAN Forum discussions tagged: ✓ Large ✓ BLK360 ✓ AprilTags Would it make sense to give the client a choice of: ✓ Matterport ✓ [platform] shot with Pilot Era I could imagine that you could do the job in far less time shooting with the Pilot Era + [platform] and thus charge way less. Knowing the "use-case" by your client will help determine which tools to use for the job. For example, does the client need Matterport scan data for an "As-Built"? I hope you get the biz. Best, Dan |
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 WGANStandard Member Los Angeles |
Home3D private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Lots of great advice from the pros who have commented before me. I've used MP + BLK and everything they've said is true about batteries, connection issues. I'll add that BLK handles higher ceilings and reaches much further, BUT it's also about 5 minutes per scan at medium settings, so it doesn't speed up the work as much as you think. Get ready for the pain of waiting. I load up my iPhone with podcasts and books-on-tape from Audible just to avoid "shoot-me-now" boredom syndrome. I've "read" many books while using the BLK. April tags do work. Use them. And since you're destined to have to create multiple MP models, consider combining them using 3DVista (no, they don't pay me anything) such as I've often done. One example here. home3d.us/clienttours/MacArthurPlaceTour/index.htm  |
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Matterport Camera Repair Service Gainesville, Florida |
MatterFix private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Home3D - Awesome work! You are inspiring me to revisit 3D Vista... I used 3D Vista a couple of years ago and it was OK....they have definitely stepped it up! How's the learning curve with all of the new features? | ||
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
WGAN-TV Leica Geosystems BLK360 Mashup with Matterport: 1st Look with Chris Hickman @Wingman These WGAN-TV shows may be helpful: ✓ Transcript: WGAN-TV Intro to 3DVista Virtual Tour Pro Software for MSPs with Los Angeles-based @Home3D Kevin Dole ✓ WGAN-TV Mashing Up BLK360 and Matterport with @Metroplex360 Chris Hickman Dan |
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WGAN Forum Founder & WGAN-TV Podcast Host Atlanta, Georgia |
DanSmigrod private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MatterFix WGAN Standard and Premium Members save $60 on 3DVista (Private Message me, if you would like the code) Dan |
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks guys. I got a call from a rental company an hour ago. The good thing they have BLK360s in their Brisbane office so I can just come and pick it up a day before I start, practise at my office and come fully prepared for a job next day. Otherwise they charge for rental once the camera is picked up by a courier which can add days of rentals while the camera is in transit. Other good things are: they supply it with 4 batteries, a tripod that can raise the camera to 2 meters high and a cost per day is about $450 AUD. They even give you an Ipad Pro which can be handy in case something happens with mine. I am planning to start with all huge spaces with a Blk360 to reduce rental time and once they are all ready I'll return the BLK360 and start using my Pro2. @DanSmigrod They are rejecting anything but Matterport. I have already shown them my Pano2VR tour done for an aged care business and they have come back saying they can only use Matterport tours in their system. I am sure they could use a pano2vr tour if it is hosted somewhere including the client's website. They have even sent me a link to show what they want a final product to look like when it is hosted on a client's website and it is done with threesixty.tours. Basically it is just a hi-res flat picture of some hotel facade with a lot of hotspot icons sitting on some hotel windows. Once clicked each opens a 3D Matterport tour of a room inside the hotel or some common areas. However when I look at this hotel listing in my partner system the hotel has multiple listings and each listing is pointed to a relevant Matterport tour. So even though I may be asked to build a custom tour with Pano2VR or threesixty.tours later the same way as their hotel example it would be only as addition to the whole job but spaces originally must be done with Matterport. |
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Gerhard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Wingman Just please take extra batteries for the BLK as they run out fast, so just keep charging them as you swop out, if you have 3 you will be okay onsite. | ||
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WGAN Fan Club Member Queensland, Australia |
Wingman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The rental company supplies at least 3 or even 4 batteries(need to check the quotation to be sure), two tipods(one can raise a camera almost to 2 meters height) and also provides an Ipad Pro. The rate I am getting for 10 days rental is unbelievably low and a few times less than expected. I have passed all details to my partner with calculations that it may save them a few days so it should be worth for them to use it. |
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dave3d private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wingman, As mentioned above I take 4 batteries but charge as they are replaced. Since you get around 30 medium scans per battery and you have 4 batteries and around 5 minutes for placement/scan/alignment you have hours between battery 4 and a recharge of battery 1. In large spaces it's usually easy to find a hidden charger spot out of the way. We have a couple other folks doing scans here. One in particular prefers Pro2 for large spaces. She's much better at getting alignment with Pro2/April Tags in those than I am. Pro2 runs about 17 sec. and at medium BLK runs about 3.5 min (I carry a 3.5 min timer. The IPadPro stays at the camera.) I wouldn't use a BLK in offices or small hallways and such. That's a waste of time. And it needs overlap to align. If I were guessing I'd say at least 40% overlap but I haven't read that anywhere. That's just me. If you go from Pro2 to BLK do the transition scan "on top of" the last Matterport scan. With your first job using BLK expect some frustration. Do your best to have no movement in the space! If something doesn't align you've just spent 10 min or so. So.... I'd say take both, Use the PRO2 everywhere you can without issue and the BLK where the PRO2 isn't working. PLAN YOUR SCAN PATH! (repeated 12 times)..... Before you start understand well what you're going to use where. Sounds like the nice thing is you'll only be out $450 if you don't like using the BLK. A lot better than 20K. (I believe the BLK prices went up in January 2021.) |
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MeshImages private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Wingman and maybe have a look at MPskin from those Italian guys. They have a very nice menu and deep linking, which may help you, when you divide the property into multiple models. I would not try to build one single mega model, because the dollhouse will loose the details. I actually prefer multiple smaller models (with a classic plan). |
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dave3d private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wingman, We just did a building exterior today and though slow it came out great. Remember BLK is LINE OF SITE. Do that with every scan. Some things you can get to work with Pro2 will slap you with BLK. Average length as you said about 30 ft - your sheet said max 60 - I haven't gone that far. I pretty much stay 30ish. Make sure it's wide open on the BLK. If not move back to the Pro2. |
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